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Ahhhh – a sunny Sunday afternoon! No clouds in the sky and the sun slowly going down a bit, taking the heat of the day away.
What better to do than relaxing a bit at the beach, having your after-lunch nap, swimming in the calm waves or catching a few of the last sun rays for improving your tan?
Just watch out that not something else catches you! What could that be?
For instance someone secretly snapping your picture in a bikini or swim suit and maybe even posting it on the internet:
Usually on Sundays you can notice groups of Indian Males, enjoying themselves strolling and taking pictures on the beaches.
Mainly veryyy close to sunbathing female tourists, or even from behind them, when they couldn’t see them. And definitely not in a coincidental way.
Okay, we all noticed the staring and big eyes you will get as a foreigner – and you will soon get used to it – but taking pictures of you while sunbathing?
Am I kidding you?
Certainly not. Something similar happened to us today on Vagator beach in the North of Goa:
While I was floating in the shallow waves, refreshing, my girlfriend was snoozing at the beach, sun-tanning.
Suddenly a group of 3 Indian Males in their late 30’s stopped right next to her, 2 of them positioning behind her, while the 3rd took out his camera taking some shots.
That wouldn’t be any sensation, if he would’ve taken the picture of the 2 guys. But obviously he was zooming in on my girlfriend, with the other 2 watching. Then he changed the angle and did the same thing again. Snoozing, she didn’t notice what was going on, but I did from afar and stormed out of the water, going after them.
I grabbed the arm of that camera guy and told him to show me the pictures he just took. Sure enough he had 2 shots of her, zoomed in on the butt and breast area – only the legs to see of the other 2 guys in the picture.
“I delete, I delete!” he uttered.
While scrolling through the pictures he took, I noticed countless pictures of other women, white, Asian or else, mainly the bum or breast area, usually zoomed in as much as possible. I tried to make him delete everything, but the 2 other guys pulled him away until they were almost running.
We were pretty upset. It’s was an experience like someone just invaded our privacy. Come on – the bikini was invented in 1946, more than 50 years ago!
Is the Indian society so prudish and 50 years behind modern morals? Or aren’t they yet spoiled by western standards? Don’t they have other ways of releasing their steam than snapping pictures of unsuspecting females on the beach?
But then, if you run around on a beach in a bikini or swimming suit, do you have a right to complain, if someone unknowingly takes your picture?
So, was I overreacting?
Upon checking a bit further on the subject, I found similar accounts, for instance this travel report about Goa (just search for ‘bikini’), this Yahoo Answers topic, another travel report at Travelpod.com or this one here.
Over at IndiaMike.com you can read this thread about harassment of western women in India and in the Scam section of the same forum about this scam, going even further, where Indian youngsters ask you to take your picture with them, only to start groping you.
It seems like a sport for them, being able to boast who can go further. Put on top of the rising rape and date-rape drug incidents in Goa and one could get seriously scared.
What do you think?
Just Chauvinism, which will simply take another few years to fade? Or are you fair game when on a beach in a bikini? Maybe tourists even provoke having their pictures taken by others? Cover up, accept it or move somewhere else?
Are those people just hormone-starved and prudish perverts or are you simply too serious, as everyone just wants some fun at the beach?
Should I do a similar thing, taking pictures of Indian Males who take pictures of other sunbathers and post them here? Fair deal or waste of time?
So many questions! What do you make out of this situation? Please comment below or vote via the Poll in the left sidebar!
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I never went to a beach in India, but I can’t say this story is completely surprising, unfortunately. I spent only two months in India, but found it the most difficult place to be a western woman out of the 18 months I spent in Asia. Even though I was traveling with my husband and wearing conservative clothes (long pants, covered shoulders, mostly long sleeves), I found men and school boys running into my chest or touches on a bus/jeep a little too often to be coincidental. I heard many stories from women traveling on their own or in groups of women – waking up on trains to people taking photos of them, being accosted in the water, etc. Unfortunately, a lot of men think that western women are loose (based on movies/TV/music videos) and like stuff like this.
Confronting them the way you did was right on. It might make them think twice next time they try something like this again. When I was researching “eve teasing” when I was in India, I read that there are organizations in India (eg., Blank Noise) who do post photos of harassers…so there is a precedent.
In Australia they would have been arrested by police, the can be held by the surf life savers until police arrive. Its a criminal offence to take the type of pictures you described here. When I lived in Bali I never saw this problem.
You did the right thing but it sounds like in Inda it is acceptable
I do not think you over reacted at all. this is gross. I mean I love the female form but they took took it to a dirty next step.
Its complicated and simple. What they did was very wrong but its an issue in every beach around the globe. Indian culture/ Indian tourists in Goa! Its been a long process…Have you read ‘Hello goodnight: A Life of Goa’ by David Tomory. …Throughout the late 60s and up until the early 70’s, western hippies/freaks sunbathed nude in Goa, much to the chargin of locals. Given that sunbathing is a western import to India, do we share any responsibility as tourists in this process .. I have to go and have a think about this!
I warned you about weekends on Goa’s beaches, remember?
But seriously, a harassment similar to the ones that Audrey describes happened to my girlfriend this summer in Labuan Bajo, Flores, Indonesia. We’ve been walking in the middle of the main road of the village when a group of maybe 15 school kids approached us. While we were smiling at them they started running and when passing by at us a couple of them grabbed the breasts of my girlfriend. Immediately after that they all split into different directions and started laughing. She was completely shocked and demanded me to do something, but as they were faster and already gone, I felt like a total idiot not being able to protect her…
Sorry for the late reply, my internet was down the last 2 days. Thanks for all your thoughts and additions!
Yep, I surely have mixed feelings about the whole situation. The culture is obviously not so open about the human body yet and it’s the whole country, but definitely not only India. So values or social perception might be different. Still an unpleasant scenario for us.
But then, it’s an international tourist destination as well, so yeah it’s really a mixed bag. It surely can and does happen anywhere else as well, I was just a bit shocked about countless similar reports on the internet. So maybe should’ve known beforehand to be prepared.
Anyway, to avoid situations like that in the future, we decided to
- cover up a bit more
- move to more deserted beaches (like Morjim in the north) for sun-tanning
- avoid Sundays when more local tourists from other, more conservative parts of India roam the beaches
Internet down? I had that so many times in India and weirdly it was always a “personal” down, not a network down. While I had full signal on my smartphone and an Airtel SIM card I could not access the net from it. A friend of mine with a similar phone and a SIM from the same provider, standing right next to me had no problems at all accessing the net. Some days later it was viceversa…
What service are you using nowadays and how much do you pay for it? Is there still only GPRS or did they implement at least EDGE in the meantime?
Juergen, don’t get me started about internet access! Okay, too late, here we go already:
I’m currently using Airtel for my mobile phone. Tried its GPRS, but it’s painfully slow in my area (although EDGE capable) and not very reliable. Sometimes full 5 bars, sometimes only 2, sometimes no connectivity even with 5 bars. Some websites are not accessible at all and they charge extra Rupees, when you use Yahoo’s website or other E-Mail services.
So I use Tata Indicom now, which is a CDMA 1x network via an USB dongle. It works quite well in the evenings and better after midnight. Uploads are really okay speeds. During the day you can usually forget about it, too slow. But that’s okay with me, as I’m mainly on the road then. It has a Rs 800 Data flat rate per month. Unfortunately they don”t tell or SMS you, when the month ends, so it ended abruptly just one evening 2 days ago. Upon recharging the next day I only learned the evening after, that you have core credit, which must be topped up as well – mine was in minus (because I did let the flat-rate run out without topping it up). So another day lost, as shops close early here.
Then I also tried a few days ago to get !dea Cellular working, it’s GSM EDGE as well, it worked the first day, similar speeds like Airtel, but slower than Tata Indicom. Unfortunately they deactivated it after 2 days again, as the shop where I bought the SIM card took its time to submit my registration documents. When they activated it again, they didn’t activate GPRS. You can’t reach the hotline, when dialing 4444 and haggling through their voice menu to operator assistance you get the message: “Thanks for calling the IDEA helpline, all operators are busy, your call is important to us, please call again later” and they hang up on you. That’s the case the whole time, so I gave up. The shop selling you the SIM card doesn’t care, as he made his business and the phone function works. GPRS? What is that? I might have to go to their business center in Panaji maybe, to get it working. They charge a flatrate of Rs 30 per day for GPRS usage, but I don’t know, why my credit is empty already, even though the initial SIM should come with Rs 250 and I topped it up already one-time with Rs 100. I never made a call, other than to their service number. Maybe they charge the whole month right away?
Other options I heard about are Vodafone (similar to Airtel) and BSNL mobile, whose coverage is said not to be so well in Goa. Ah yes, and Reliance Telecommunications, which caters more to business customers.
All connections are similar to Dial-up speeds, the speed numbers from the marketing departments are nowhere to be reached. Also they give speeds in kilobit/second (not kilobyte), which is quite misleading.
Other technologies like DSL seem to be available, but only if you have a land line, are a resident or run a business here. Honestly I see myself moving again after Q1/2009, so it’s maybe too much hassle to bother. So I will probably do with what I have right now.
Hmmmm, guess I have a lot to learn about India. *sigh*
India is notorious for harassment of women (particularly white women), it’s the whole colonialism and forbidden fruit thing. But in the flip side how many Indian women do you see walking around in bikinis, daisy dukes and tank tops without a bra. Basically it’s just something you have to deal with unless you want to dress like a nun…
That’s awful Chris, but I don’t think this is something anyone can combat. Sure you can confront the ones who come close to your perimeter, but what about those with long range zoom lenses, taking pics of you and your girlfriend from miles away? I think the world has gone so corrupt that whenever you’re out there you’re not a free man anymore. Imagine living in London, where your picture is taken over 300 times a day when you’re out of house? I think the key for maintaining your peace of mind in this situation is to know that you’re not the only “victim”, that everyone out there is just the same. I find freedom in anonymity, as long as they don’t know who I am I don’t give a crap. What do you think?
PS: Doesn’t mean you shouldn’t be careful out there. Do you want me to send you a taser gun for your girlfriend?
Of course it’s somehow not something that can be avoided completely. And sure, there might be even people with long zoom lenses (although I didn’t see any in India yet) – it was just the utter lack of respect and privacy in that moment from so close, that made us pretty upset. And yup, if you read up a bit further on the subject, it is probably more common in India, than other places in Asia. The invasion of privacy in London and other places with CCTV cameras and else in definitely another worrying topic.
hey chris,
just look behind the borders of goa and you will get some awareness why indian man do behave as they did. i have been to goa for 2 month in 2006 (+ some months travelling through some states of india) and i even got the hint that there are indian companies selling these special “sightseeing trips”.
india: you will love it or hate it……
take care,
steff
Oh yeah! And every Bollywood movie or Indian music video on MTV, VH1 here is full of erotic or sexual hints, ultra-short skirts, longing looks and ‘dirty’ dancing. So therefore it’s hard to see, why the behavior is so different. Or maybe because…
Wow!
I take pictures of every pretty Filipina I get a chance too. I don’t try to hide it. Many times I have to coax them into it. If someone doesn’t want me to take their picture, I don’t.
There is no reasonable expectation of privacy in a public place. it does seem kind of creepy to sneak the pictures though and sometimes they take extreme close ups of certain body areas that I’ve seen on porn sites around the net. That too is different. I like pretty girls and I make no apology for it. I also take pictures of lots of guys and children too. I like too photograph life.
I’ve never been to India, would love to visit.
India is where girls get grabbed in crowds, I was trying to teach a young man in Sawegram, India has to be a little macho so he would not lose his girlfriend. It was funny, he had no idea how to protect the girl, and in this instance the girls was furious because he would not. India is full of small people, so not a big deal. Good Luck. Andy of HoboTraveler.com Travel Blog I suppose it is nice to have a girlfriend when in Goa, I love Palolem beach.
It’s a shame that you had to experience this and from the comments it’s clear that it’s not as isolated occurrence but you handled it well.
Yuck. Indian men can be overly aggressive here in the U.S. too. I’ve run into a couple who ( when hitting on me as a complete stranger ) that just couldn’t get ” no ” . I don’t think their behavior would have been the same if I had the same coloring as them. That said ……. I’m referring to a few examples out of MANY respectful and intelligent Indian men that I’ve met in San Francisco ( there is a huge Indian poplutation ) . For the ” bad apples ” I was referring to ….. I am almost positive my lighter skin and hair played a factor.
I just got back from there. had the WORST EXPERIENCE in India. I agree with Audrey…
!!!!White women should NEVER Travel to India!!!!!
The Indian men are very disrespectful in that they eye us Western women like predators and are looking for opportunities to rape if they could I am convinced.
I got harassed, abused, groped, you name it by these NASTY **** ******* **** ***** **** *** hindus.
The recent news of rape (and in some cases killing) is proof that its very DANGEROUS in India for a Western woman to travel to India. Please do not go there if you wish to be safe!!!
remark: racist/insulting slurps deleted by Chris, please remain civil, as I otherwise have to delete these comments in the future..
Dear,
Can you please tell me do Goa has a Nude Beach. Becoz i come to know that in Kerala / Pondicherry & Goa has a nude beaches. If it is true then govt has approved or it is illegal against the law.
mohanan, are you serious? There is no such thing like a nude beach in Goa. Do you have one in Saudi Arabia? No? Why not? Religion and Politics? Ah so! Same here in India.
If there are nude beaches in Kerala, then they are definitely illegal or at least not official. With the number or rapes and sexual crimes here, I sometimes think they should allow a bit more laxer rules, be it on TV, or concerning the segregation of sexes in the public. Maybe that’s what causing plenty of hormonal distress and leads to even more dangerous actions. You can’t believe how many articles each day are in the newspapers here regarding rape, sexual molestation of minors, assault from groups of men against women and similar.
Sorry for the rant, but Religion and Politics my *ss!
wait a min…
u all westerners are talking as if there are no cases of rape/molestation/harassment in your country.For your kind info US has the most number of rape cases(According to the data, 18,359 rape cases were registered in India in the first three quarters of this year while in the US, 93,934 and in South Africa 54,926 rape cases were registered respectively.)google it out and get your facts right.
As far as ogling is concerned ,yes india is a lot conservative,so as far as human(men’s) instinct is concerned,you ought to stare at something unusual and attractive;who on this earth has asked you to expose to such as extent that people find it difficult to keep their eyes away from???(when in rome do as the romans do—remember,similarly when in India do as the Indians do).
So instead of using slang words and making racist comments make sure you yourself are totally ideal.
By saying so i am not at all advocating their behavior.
IT WAS TOTALLY WRONG ON THEIR PART,BUT YOU TOO ARE RESPONSIBLE TO CERTAIN EXTENT FOR IT.
comments welcome(no abusive n slang words plz)
Kunal, you have some very good and valid points there.
While I wouldn’t go as far as Jennifer commenting above, my own rant at comment #21 was obviously pretty harsh also. I didn’t want to talk only about India. But I still think that societies which promote (and enforce) the segregation of the sexes have more issues with rapes, freedom of thought and acceptance and respect of women in their own societies.
And while the number of rapes in India might probably be lower, only 1 in 70 cases are even reported. And why? Because the victim would have to fear revenge, beating, killings, acid attacks/kerosene burnings or humiliation by neighbors, family or even the police. You can read about this every day in the daily newspapers, I read here regularly the Times of India, the Goan Herald, The Asian Age, the NavHindTimes and they are full with it.
Also of every reported case, only 20% lead to conviction.
That doesn’t mean that the US or Europe are better off. Any rape, molestation or harassment of girls or women are 1 too many.
It was our mistake to assume falsely, that at an international travel destination like Goa you could behave like in other beach destinations, like Phuket, Ibiza or Bali and swim in a ‘normal’ beach attire. So that’s a lesson learned.
My main point with this article is that other people should be aware of it also and act accordingly.
i don’t think being topless fits into definition of “normal” beach attire by any means.N mind you i am not making an over statement,i have been to Goa just once and that too for 2 days and was surprised to see about 5 topless girls on a single beach…..
I too agree with you that the travelers need to be warned about such things,but people making racist and biased comments is totally unacceptable.N please don’t bring religion into it,the lady there has used a TOTALLY WRONG word.As if people from other religions like christianity are flawless, FOR YOUR KIND INFO MANY OF THE LOCALS IN GOA ARE CHRISTIANS.IT HURTS RELIGIOUS SENTIMENTS OF PEOPLE LIKE ME.
Kunal, who said anything about being topless? Okay, I was topless, but then I’m male. The article is about a girl in a bikini; but as I said before, lesson learned. Better not to do in Goa, if you want to avoid being harassed. I have no understanding for girls going topless in Goa, as that’s completely off the line and shows no respect for the locals, even though Goa was actually known as the “free love” center during the hippie times of the 60’s and 70’s.
And I agree with you 100% that we should avoid racist comments, that’s why I edited the above comment by Jennifer.
Now – religion for me is a different thing, I’m completely against clerics and priests who bend their religion for their own needs, be it Muslims, Christians, Hindu, Buddhists or whom else. They suppress natural emotions and normal human behavior. And you have black sheep (extremists) in all major religions, be it the Pope, Islamic Sharia extremists, Buddhist Extremists in Sri Lanka, or Hindus who try to kill/burn the houses of their Muslim neighbors.
My motto is “live and let live”, it makes no sense to force other people to live under the rules of one religion, if they don’t want to accept it. That’s why the separation of church and state is a good thing in most developed societies. Unfortunately many people in countries where the government is run by clerics don’t have a choice.
Chris: what u did was totally right. those men had no right to photograph your girlfriend without her explicit permission. and zooming in was totally unacceptable. n if you had to yell, d locals would definitely help you, they would have confiscated d camera n handed it over to d cops.
However, I would like to clarify here that these perverts are generally people from other states of India n not Goans. Thats y you’ll encounter such incidents mostly on weekends, when they come down to Goa. Goans are very open, hospitable and peaceful people, and we do not indulge in such perverted acts (now we do appreciate the female form, but we would not secretly photograph).
N what you say is right, only a small % of cases r reported. But not d case in Goa, here, thankfully, d people r more liberalised n segregation of sexes isn’t as bad as many other places in India.
Kunal: I agree that Jennifer made some nasty comments towards our religion, which is generalizing n totally out of line.
That said, u say that u were in Goa 4 just 2 days. May I ask you how much do u know about d Goan culture? As u say, when in Rome do as Romans do, n Goa is a very different Rome. Different states in India have their own culture, and Goa’s is totally different. Thankfully, we do not have the same kind of perverts originating here as in d rest of our country.
I myself am saddened immensely to see their perceptions. most of them think that Goa is a place for booze n easy sex, that they can get laid easily by our western guests. I hv traveled numerous times by train n upon realising I’m a Goan, people ask me so where r d nude beaches? sad.
places like Delhi n Mumbai are worse. perverted males keep bumping into females, whether Indian or western, at every opportunity. n no1 bothers to protest. In Delhi, my cousin was actually followed back to her hotel by some shady character. n thats no isolated incident. U proud of this culture??? I am ashamed of it.
I dunno from which state you are, but yes bikinis are normal beach attire in Goa. n so r topless tourists, though the Goa Govt. has officially banned that. it is said that it was banned due to pressure from the Central Govt of India. We, Goan locals, do not mind it. n in a broad sense of generalisation, the demeanor of foreign tourists is much better than Indian tourists. Its sad. I mostly see Indian tourists littering the beaches, spitting all over (that too red colored paan or gutkha), writing names on heritage sites, n generally misbehaving after getting drunk. real sad.
Rakesh, I noticed that also, that many weekend tourists from other states tarnish the reputation of Goans. You can see their cars at most of the tourist spots and viewpoints in the state. And not only Foreigners, but Goan women are harassed also.
The problem is maybe a bit deeper ingrained in their upbringing, tight family and caste traditions and traditional role models behavior. I hope, that with India obviously becoming more and more modern due to the opening of its economy and society towards modern democratic viewpoints, this ‘medieval’ behavior will slowly disappear.
Nothing is lost and we are all on this planet to learn and move forward.
@Rakesh
No culture teaches man to be a pervert,so its not in Indian culture to be a pervert.Well you should be ashamed of yourself coz u thought so.
People turning into perverts are the immediate side effects of westernization of thoughts and ideas.
See when there is a scarcity of something people flock to see it and are attracted towards it,this is the main problem
In western countries people are used to seeing people females topless,so its not a point of attraction for them.
Slowly the more westernized India becomes these will ware off,meaning people wont even bother to look even if a blonde female comes topless near you.
But yes it will take time.
I know some people are hopeless and harass women,but no country is an exception.Such hopeless people are to be found in every country be it any country(US,Australia,SA,etc).No country has a zero crime rate(if your comments were true ,more the advanced country less the crime rate).
Chris said that the number of cases registered where less in india,he also gave a ratio of 70:1(i dont know where he go that from),but you are neglecting the major point,did you compare the population of India with US,so if u c the ratio of crime to population is far less in India than US.
Let me clarity “By Saying so,i m in no way advocating such hopeless behavior by people”
So dont generalize this issue to any particular country.A particular group of people here are responsible not the entire nation.
Its a pity that you being an Indian,Rakesh made such comments.
One more sad thing is people like you tend to divide people on the basis of state.It sounds from your statement that you are just a GOAN and not an INDIAN.
one more point,no-one in this world is perfect,we can just move a step towards perfection.
I know our pace towards improvement is slow,but still steadily we are moving towards being the next super Power.(inspite of many odds like corruption,population,etc)
i was in india with my family a few years ago, i was 12, i was very conservativly clothed with long shirts and baggy pants, even getting off a bus with my parents i was groped and pressed against and im not over reacting, it was very busy and when women are pressed against you and you compare it with ALL the men you know you are being harrassed. I saw one woman walking with a group of friends all wearing longish shorts and tshirts and a group of men pulled her to the ground and pulled up her top and groped her in broad daylight (northern goa)
also to kunal, i have never ever been treated this way in the uk and yet it was every where i turned in goa and it was clear these men were local or at least inidan so why blame westernisation? so its ok for people to act on primal instincts and show no restraints even towards children? if western women put it about so much then surely western men see so many more opportunity around these “whores” why is the worst youll get in the uk usually a wink or a “your looking nice tonight?”
@anya you are not getting my point;what i meant was the westernization is exposing indians to things that they havent seen before,so few hopeless men who cant control their instincts are acting senselessly.
Well sorry to hear that such things happened to you and few(or rather many,as per your view) other travellers.but all i want to say is plz and plz dont generalize the whole event to entire country and all Indians.All indians or rather goans in this question aren’t bad.
And all i mean to say is no country is free from such people.
Really thoughtful discussion, I feel what happen to That girl was not correct, but rightly said by kunal that you cannot genralise these for all indians. I was twice in Goa and i make few foriegners good friend of mine from Italy as they were in my hotel. There girlfriends taken my photographs and even i have photograph of mine with their girlfriend in bikini and snapped taken by them from my camera, it can be taken out with permission than there is no problem but without permission you can’t.
Now i will raise a similar issue when tourist came from outside take the photographs of baggers in india on roadside, or taking photographs of slums of india and potrayed them the true picture of india, will they take any permission? it is a similar issue, the interest of a persons. Please ensure from all tourist not to take such type of photographs in india, i will ensure you these thing will not happend in india(Photo at beach), You thinks what you do is always correct? it is not man. Rest discussion with you later.
Thanks
Vineet, good points! And no, I’m not always correct, never said that. To take pictures of unknown people in their day-to-day situations without their permissions is surely not right at all. And yeah, beggars won’t probably be in any position to object. Taking pictures of people you meet and get to know is something different. There is always a fine line for sure. Slums are not nice, but are a part of India or other countries also. Even Italy has plenty of dirty corners, the same can be said about Germany or probably any other country on this planet.
well….so much being said and so many arguments being made….what conclusion do we arrive to?
Let me start off with saying that i have been to goa number of times and have witnessed many a times fellow Indian males taking photograph of western women while they are sun bathing or swimming in the sea.Seriously one cannot deny such event and say its an isolated event.
Funny thing is any film magazine or bollywood
movie one would surely find some indian actress dancing in bikini or few white women( predominently eastern european) doing a back up dance in bikini ….then why such things happen?
Over the years the image of Goa has been made such as a paradise or an escape route to cheap booze and scoring with white women.
Now the question is who are this men who involve in such shameful activities?
They are the average middle class indians who wants to take such pics and show to friends back home claiming they have spent a night with this girls and use the photograph as an evidence to the story.
This people neither have the mental outset nor are they aware of contemporary western cilvilisation and its an universal truth ” you seek what you don’t have”.Its also a fact indians in general have a weakness for fair skinned( ever seen an african women being clicked ???)
Now to check such behaviour …..stringent law has to be placed and beach patrol should be initiated to identify such men and place a hefty fine on spot or confiscate their camera.
It saddens me to a great extent that such events are tarnishing the image of the country and branding India and indians as primitive cultured people.
Please do not stop visiting India for i believe India is still one of the most beautiful and diverse country on this planet. All that is needed is to deal such incidents firmly and send out the message that such behaviour is not acceptable in India.
sumantra, you are right, it’s not worth to not visiting India, due to some Perverts or medieval mindsets. I hope that by pointing those occasions out, things will also change, as people will hopefully feel embarrassed and adjust their behavior over time.
Chris,
I feel for your girl dude. If my girl was being photographed, I would’ve tossed the phone into the beach (of course after deleting all the pictures). I was born in Gujarat but I remember going to Goa beach when I was little (in 1993), and there were a lot topless women. I don’t remember a single lady, since I was too busy avoiding their sight.
Other than that. I was born in India and raised in the US. Went there last summer and I know the perverts. Trust me! You did nothing wrong. You have to protect your women. And for other Indians here
How spot on! I was not aware of it until a fruit seller lady on Anjuna beach, whom we knew from previous fruit transaction and eventually became friends with, told me that these guys behind our towels were getting ready to take my picture in all my glory when I was just getting off the water. Interestingly, a bit of confrontation in a gracious manner seemed to work for me. I didn’t even have to raise my voice, just a simple, “are you guys okay there?” could make them smiled sheepishly and put away their camera. Evidently, according to our new friend, these fellers travelled all the way down from Mumbai just to perve on female tourists on the beach. We found a new solution though; the deserted Mandrem beach for my maximum Goan beach experience. Bliss!!!!!
Oh ,this is a bit out of context, but Chris or anyone, can you tell me if it is do-able to travel around China in February? Anyone have some pointers for us in terms of the dos and the don’ts? TA!
wyling sun, maybe you have to read again. There is nothing about western women (she is Asian) and nobody went topless or in skimpy outfits, just a standard swimming suit. Others have similar problems, not only in India, elsewhere also. I remember suit-and-tie dressed Indians roaming the beaches of Sentosa in Singapore with a video camera in their hand, salivating about everything even remotely in swimming attire.
Unjaded, that’s probably the best solution to avoid the more touristy beaches and head for the deserted ones (not that Anjuna is overly touristy, these days you see more locals there…but maybe that’s the reason…)
Nick, don’t worry – that’s not a general Indian problem and maybe it will disappear at all with the continuing modernization of India. That could of course bring other issues also, but that’s maybe the way it goes.
Hey Nice discussion,
Does anyone take pictures in a zoo ? The answer is we all do .It is the novelty factor for godsake .Thats how it seems to an average indian male who comes from a conservative spiritual society with high moral values where exposed flesh is a rarity.
The majority of indians are decent law abiding hardworking individuals .There are perverts and rapists in every society ,so pls dont generalise
If i walked down the middle of Wall street dressed as a saadhu with a long beard ,a kamandalam and long saffron robes i would get plenty of attention too .
If you dont want the attention cover up and wear a salwaar kameez like the indians do and sunbathe in the western hemisphere.
GROW UP GIRLS!
You want it all your own way…you wake up and guess what – you’re not in KANSAS!……..
Travel O/S and grow a bit of backbone….hassles happen to guys travelling in India too..I traveled wearing my Scottish kilt…AND I know to expect all kinds of good and not so good attentions..
If it too much as precious Jenny says -DONT GO..
I’m sure she ’safe’ back home in her gun toting good old US of A…..Not much overt grabbing – there just the worst gun related violence in the west..
I know what i’d choose!
That’s horrible. I wouldn’t want to be into such kind of situation. I’m glad that here in the Philippines, I didn’t heard so far such kind of acts…
True, when you go to a beach for swimming here in the Philippines, people here usually back off, leave you to your own devices and respect your privacy.
This is shameful for India, but you see, this is what 5000 years of religion and philosophy has made of us. And the stalking behavior are actually the birth pangs of India’s new found sexual frankness. Our (so called) decency, culture and traditions prevent us from enjoying life in it’s natural essence, that’s why many Indians have to resort to gazing at what they can never do, or become.
Well Welll Well. I can conclude from this thread that you guys are wasting time. And i also wasted time reading all this bullshit. How the hell you want privacy in a public place. I had been to INDIA with my girlfriend. People there are so helpful and friendly. You cant generalize your statements based on a few people. Ofcourse, you are behaving on beaches as u behave in your bed room. Be in your limits, and there will be no harm. I would like to visit GOA every year…..
John, if you would have read the article, you would not make such unqualified comments. It’s okay to defend India or Goans for that matter, but read the facts first and comment then.
Hi, I am currently in Goa. I read this article. Its quite useful. Though i didnt find any problem in Goa till now. But i will be more cautious now after reading this article. John is right, people are very undersanding and helpful.
Hey Chris, I actually got to your site searching for options to hire a car in Bali and the prices of petrol. And this thread really got me going. Especially because it is about a place I love and call home.
Try and visualise this.
A group of Indians, educated, smart decent folks (at home) come to Goa. They are all wearing an “I love Goa” T-shirt, Ray Ban sun glasses, a pouch around their waist along with a camera, plaid socks and leather shoes. They move around in small groups of 3-4, searching for that elusive white dream. Their own background limits their interactions with women, and their concept of a white woman is drawn from Hollywood where the women knock off their panties in a flash.
Now this group has a limited duration stay in Goa. 4-5 days maximum. Mostly arranged across a long weekend. Their goal is to drink and get laid by those wonderful white beauties who are just waiting for their paunchy Indian man to sweep them of their feet and bed them. Believe me, that is the way they visualise their stay in Goa. They are obnoxious and disgusting. From the way they treat the service personnel, to the way they treat the environment. I am a Goan, and this really infuriates me to see this happen in my home.
A few of the other Indian posters here asked that we not generalise. But when one is faced with this situation time after time after time, what else does one do other than generalise. Walk onto the beaches of Anjuna, Calangute or Candolim, and you will experience the same first-hand (unless of course you want us to be a Taliban state with women in burkas bathing in the sea. Dont get me started with that….). Being an Indian, it fills me with shame. Having had this happen to women in my company fills me with rage. I guess staying away from the beaches on the weekends and moving onto more deserted beaches is an option, but I hate to be forced into those options.
But India is like the land of Janus. Meet the same man at home. Have his sister introduce you, and he won’t even look you in the eye. It is almost like the anonymity of being in Goa brings out his animal instinct and all chivalry goes out the window.
I love Goa, the peaceful laid back attitude where “sussegad” rules. Where the music and feni make strangers the best of friends. Where it is ok to let it hang out and just be yourself…….. Unfortunately, thats exactly what brought us to this thread in the first place.
btw, are you still in Goa? Will be back in december. Would love to meet .
thanks to hollywood and porn industry of california most of the males in india thinks thats white women are easy to get to bed. and what you see or get commnets from them its the result of that. i personnelly felt that until i came to usa.
Hi Chris,
I am an Indian man and have dated a few European women. I am now married to an Indian woman. I think all cultures have their ups and downs. I mean I do think what those guys did was wrong but then again, it is a personal opinion. In a public place, I do not think you can really complain about being photographed. If someone did that to my wife, I would be real angry just like you were. However, if my wife were wearing a bikini or skimpy clothes in a repressed country like India, she would be giving wrong signals. I can proudly say that till date, I have never harassed any woman and never even gotten involved in eve teasing even when friends of mine did that. However, in general, India is a pretty repressed society because of the number of hypocrites we have. This does not mean all Indian men are perverts and to relate this to culture and religion is preposterous to say the least. True, rape cases are not reported in India and that could be a reason why India does not have as many rape cases as in the USA. But, the USA has its share of perverts too. If you want to quote an example, quote Germany or many European countries, where women can more often than not get home at even 4am in the night without being attacked or raped. I am not sure the USA is one of those countries. It is like the pot calling the kettle black. Don’t get me wrong. I am not criticizing you but sometimes it is worthwhile to understand the differences in the culture in a country before you behave like you are say in the USA. A problem with many Americans is that they see the world from their own perspective at all times. This does not mean all Americans are shit heads, does it? Also, in the USA, many guys stare at women in Bikinis though in a more subtle way. I had a few American friends who were really perverted but they were subtle about it. That is the difference. Many repressed Indian men see a lot of cheap porn films which show white women removing their panties at the drop of a hat. This is not representative of the ordinary white woman. Still, when an ordinary white woman lies on a beach revealing half her breasts and a lot more down south, this can attract the repressed perverted Indian man. Why not just take a look around, understand your surroundings and behave likewise?
Mike,
By the way, white women in general are easier to bed. I have an Indian friend here who came to Germany and in a span of one year, he had sex with at least 8-10 white women. Sometimes, some white women do give an impression that they are easy and many of them are easy. This is however, no reason to force yourself upon them or to attack them. My advice to white women visiting India;
Cover up and trust your instincts. If you think India sucks and the USA or your country is better, don’t visit India
Better to be safe than sorry.
Those who want privacy in public places and they dont want to be photographed in bikini, either dont wear bikini or dont visit india.
Even whores in india dont dare to wear bikinis in a public place (beach is a public place)
Anyways, i think if one can dare bikini, she should bare this much in asian countries. You cant force your values and tradition on another country…..
Matt, again. Who can read has clear advantages. No white woman exposed half her breasts here anywhere. Though I agree with most of your observations, that doesn’t make the behavior of this perverts right or acceptable in any way. And it doesn’t help to blame the victim, like it is so common in India, whenever there is injustice done to a woman.
sidharth, I won’t comment again on things that have been said many times. I even agree with you that it’s not a good idea to visit India, if you are a civilized woman and plan to go to the beach in a swimming suit. Better to go elsewhere.
Chris,
I did not say that your wife exposed half her breasts(not that you said I said your wife did that) but some white women in India do go over the top. Read about a UK girl who was raped and before that, she was happily doing drugs with the locals? If you want to stay out of trouble, do you do drugs with locals you hardly know even when you know you are in a repressed society?Where did I blame the victim? Let me make it clear. There is no excuse for rape or perverted behaviour. However, there are reasons and sometimes, there are inadvertent invitations from women not to be raped but signals that they might be loose in character. I am just saying that one has to be careful how one dresses in different parts of India. I am not saying that your wife deserved what happened to her. You say that one who can read has clear advantages. Well, it applies to everyone
I am just saying that in a repressed society like India, wearing a bikini is bound to invite perverts. That is all. By the way, the country where you come from is not exactly safe for women. There are some places in the USA where the chances of being raped or mugged are higher than in say Mumbai. The lady here does not even have to be in a bikini
I think you forgot that the USA has the highest number of serial rapists and killers.
Only a week back or so ,there was a report that a girl was raped by a gang of men in a school or so. So, do I go over the top and say that the USA is uncivilized given that you already hinted that India is uncivilized?
Matt, I’m sorry, but your explanations sound to me like an excuse. Goa is advertised as a beach destination – in Europe, Asia and elsewhere. What’s the point of that if you can’t go to a beach in beach attire? I agree, that India is a repressed society and it’s definitely better to avoid ‘provoking actions’ when going there as a tourist. Lesson learned.
Sure, the Scarlett Keeling case is an interesting, yet controversial example, what can happen when you are not careful enough, although the cover up of the rape, murder and ongoing accusations by politicians and in the local media against her mother and relatives are also the same thing – finding reasons, why she deserved it or why it was the victim’s fault, while completely forgetting who did what here. I don’t advocate the use of drugs in the company of strangers for sure, but a rape is a rape, murder is murder – it’s all crimes by individuals against a weaker individual. That doesn’t make the drug use by an 15-year old teenager right.
And by the way again: who can read has clear advantages. “The country where I come” from is not the USA. Sure you can compare India and the USA, just to deflect from the facts and that’s probably right, that in the US the numbers are higher. But what does it have to do with the injustice in that or other cases, if someone has more criminals than one side? Does that make it any less criminal?
Chris,
My bad that I kind of arrogantly guessed that you were from the USA. Now, let’s get to the point. There was a report recently that Scarlett’s mom was arrested in the UK for some kind of crime. You must have read what I said. I am not giving any excuses for rape. There is no excuse for rape and I already said that. I do not want to go to the “who can read has clear advantages” again. However, anywhere in the world, when a crime is committed against anyone else, if the victim has questionable character, the case is looked at differently. I am sure you know this. It may not be right but if a prostitute complains about being raped, her case will be handled very differently. I am not saying the young girl was a prostitute but her actions(if reports are true) were not something a moral woman would do. Of course, blaming a rape victim for the rape is despicable to say the least but hey, the world is not a perfect place and it is full of scumbags who have no conscience. And many people in India (mainly politicians) do not have any conscience. That is why India is what it is today.We have a lot of very smart people but a lot more very very stupid and evil people that makes India what it is today. My main objection to a lot of what was written on your blog was that many people started hinting that most if not all Indian men were perverts. As I said, I can proudly say that I have never sexually harassed any woman right from my college days even when many classmates of mine indulged in eve teasing at least.
Last but not the least,I was not comparing the USA to India to deflect facts. I was comparing it because I thought you were from the USA and then your whole criticism looked like the pot calling the kettle black. The truth is that every country has problems but some countries are more fucked up and India is one of them. I am proud to be Indian but I am not proud of how my country is. It is a catch 22 situation for people like me. We leave our country because we can leave and most of the Indians abroad like say in the USA or Europe are really smart. Yet, in most countries, we will always be foreigners.Indians in the USA have the highest per capita income among all ethnic groups. Why? Because there are a lot of very smart people Indians who migrated to the USA. I live in Germany. Germany does not have so many Indians but most of the Indians here at least have master degrees. The funny thing is that some of the highly educated Indian people are perverted. It has to do with their upbringing and because India is repressed. However, I lived in a repressed country too(though I spent eleven years of my life in Kuwait). I did not turn out to be perverted. Of course, I am deviating from the whole topic at hand but what I am trying to say is that there are always reasons for why people turn out to be assholes. However, one cannot say that these reasons are excuses.
By the way, which country are you from?
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u take any place in world you will find both the sides on a same coin….its up to you what u want to keep into ur memories…just respect the culture you r travelling…or dont travell at all if u cant ignore some small things like these! carry good memories drop bad one !!!
i am an Orthodox indian born and brought up in india.i must concede that the average indian male is obsessed with female nudity. the reason might be that the only nude women we see before being married are half-crazed “bhikharins” i.e. beggar women.there is a lot of surreptitious ogling of women during religious baths. as far as goa is concerned i have been there a few times.i should say the sights of caucasian women in thongs and g-strings lying around, zipping along on bikes in kurtas with bare thighs showing is enough to cause a riot.
the thing is every bloody macho indian has one dream of his life as far as sex is concerned- doing it with a white woman and boasting of it to his friends.thing is we cover up our own women as tight as possible and pay our way to goa to stare at whte women. the fools don’t bother with swimwear themselves! they roam the beaches fully clad. i saw one of those on a beach chair under an umbrella once!can you believe that?sunbathing with your clothes on?
i want to add a nother bit to my comment. there is also a recklss disregard for decency among white women in goa.once i was at an ancient temple in goa with my family. it was broad daylight, noon to be specific. there was an israeli family there – two elderly women one young guy and a young woman. the young woman had on a dress/frock just barely covering her crotch.it was quite flimsy and light. what doyou think happened next? a gust of wind swept up the dress.and underneath?a g-string! both cheeks of her butt in their full glory! men women adolescent boys staring dumbfounded at the sight.the girl was oblivious to it all. she was cooly clicking away photos with her digital camera! now a g-string might be ok on a beach but can’t you wear sensible clothes/innerwear in public places. i know western women wear thongs/g- strings as regular innerwear but then the “frock” had to be sensible.it was little more than a vest.
another thing about sunbathing in goa. some of the members of this blog have suggested using “secluded” beaches for tanning. there is always the possibility of being preyed upon for rape in this option. no one to help on a deserted beach. hell! you could get killed for your I-Pod/digital camera/petty cash on a deserted beach.don’t even think of it! what would i suggest? a “cordoned” beach behind the hotels like the Taj or the Majorda resort?
Hi Chris…i completely understand your concern. But do u think its only Indian males who ogle at bikinis or boobs?dont the english or the americans treat women as pussies and say yum yum at the sight of big boobs?think once.
Nikhil, I don’t know what kind of Americans or English people you know, but my experience is that generally only a few people treat women as ‘pussies’ or utter whatever words loudly at the sight of a covered big breast. Definitely I don’t want to hang out with them.
Surely enough, you have black sheep in every nationality, so why generalize.
Anyway, again – this article is not about ogling or letting your eyes wander; but trying to take pictures of the better parts of ones girlfriend at a public beach without asking.
The entire subcontinent is a joke!!! Why anyone in their right mind would want to travel and spend money there is beyond me.
India in particular, claims to be the world’s largest democracy, but you only have to scratch the surface to reveal the rampant corruption and profound stupidity . I have been and I’ve seen.
If you are female it is NOT a good idea to travel there. If you are a white female, it’s DEFINITELY NOT a good idea to travel there. You will most certainly have regrets. There are lots of cheaper, closer & safer alternatives than India.
The subcontinent in general, has some very deep-rooted cultural abnormalities, some of which stem from their over-whelming fascination with religion.
Unless you are looking into some slave and master sexual experience perhaps.
I do not understand why some Indian men think having sex with a white woman is something so great. I highly disagree with some people here who think that most Indian men want to have sex with a white woman. I have been living in Europe for almost four years. I have dated a few women here( for short periods) but I never tried to sleep with any of them though some of them were more than ready to sleep with a non- European like me who they consider exotic. All this cheap behaviour displayed by some Indian men is because India is sexually repressed. Also, there are many white men who are equally perverse. I have studied with many men from the western world and I can vouch that they are some equally cheap men. Just that they are surreptitious
Mag,
India may be a joke to you. Sure, India is still a third world country in spite of all claims to the contrary but then again, not all is well in the western world too especially in the USA or in Australia( where you come from). Australia is full of racists and most of the Aussies have descended from prisoners. What more can you expect.? Families break up at the drop of a hat in western countries. Women and men sleep around at the drop of a hat. So, before you say any country is a joke, make sure your country is perfect.