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Ahhhh – a sunny Sunday afternoon! No clouds in the sky and the sun slowly going down a bit, taking the heat of the day away.
What better to do than relaxing a bit at the beach, having your after-lunch nap, swimming in the calm waves or catching a few of the last sun rays for improving your tan?
Just watch out that not something else catches you! What could that be?
For instance someone secretly snapping your picture in a bikini or swim suit and maybe even posting it on the internet:
Usually on Sundays you can notice groups of Indian Males, enjoying themselves strolling and taking pictures on the beaches.
Mainly veryyy close to sunbathing female tourists, or even from behind them, when they couldn’t see them. And definitely not in a coincidental way.
Okay, we all noticed the staring and big eyes you will get as a foreigner – and you will soon get used to it – but taking pictures of you while sunbathing?
Am I kidding you?
Certainly not. Something similar happened to us today on Vagator beach in the North of Goa:
While I was floating in the shallow waves, refreshing, my girlfriend was snoozing at the beach, sun-tanning.
Suddenly a group of 3 Indian Males in their late 30’s stopped right next to her, 2 of them positioning behind her, while the 3rd took out his camera taking some shots.
That wouldn’t be any sensation, if he would’ve taken the picture of the 2 guys. But obviously he was zooming in on my girlfriend, with the other 2 watching. Then he changed the angle and did the same thing again. Snoozing, she didn’t notice what was going on, but I did from afar and stormed out of the water, going after them.
I grabbed the arm of that camera guy and told him to show me the pictures he just took. Sure enough he had 2 shots of her, zoomed in on the butt and breast area – only the legs to see of the other 2 guys in the picture.
“I delete, I delete!” he uttered.
While scrolling through the pictures he took, I noticed countless pictures of other women, white, Asian or else, mainly the bum or breast area, usually zoomed in as much as possible. I tried to make him delete everything, but the 2 other guys pulled him away until they were almost running.
We were pretty upset. It’s was an experience like someone just invaded our privacy. Come on – the bikini was invented in 1946, more than 50 years ago!
Is the Indian society so prudish and 50 years behind modern morals? Or aren’t they yet spoiled by western standards? Don’t they have other ways of releasing their steam than snapping pictures of unsuspecting females on the beach?
But then, if you run around on a beach in a bikini or swimming suit, do you have a right to complain, if someone unknowingly takes your picture?
So, was I overreacting?
Upon checking a bit further on the subject, I found similar accounts, for instance this travel report about Goa (just search for ‘bikini’), this Yahoo Answers topic, another travel report at Travelpod.com or this one here.
Over at IndiaMike.com you can read this thread about harassment of western women in India and in the Scam section of the same forum about this scam, going even further, where Indian youngsters ask you to take your picture with them, only to start groping you.
It seems like a sport for them, being able to boast who can go further. Put on top of the rising rape and date-rape drug incidents in Goa and one could get seriously scared.
What do you think?
Just Chauvinism, which will simply take another few years to fade? Or are you fair game when on a beach in a bikini? Maybe tourists even provoke having their pictures taken by others? Cover up, accept it or move somewhere else?
Are those people just hormone-starved and prudish perverts or are you simply too serious, as everyone just wants some fun at the beach?
Should I do a similar thing, taking pictures of Indian Males who take pictures of other sunbathers and post them here? Fair deal or waste of time?
So many questions! What do you make out of this situation? Please comment below or vote via the Poll in the left sidebar!
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December 8th, 2008 at 5:46 am
I never went to a beach in India, but I can’t say this story is completely surprising, unfortunately. I spent only two months in India, but found it the most difficult place to be a western woman out of the 18 months I spent in Asia. Even though I was traveling with my husband and wearing conservative clothes (long pants, covered shoulders, mostly long sleeves), I found men and school boys running into my chest or touches on a bus/jeep a little too often to be coincidental. I heard many stories from women traveling on their own or in groups of women – waking up on trains to people taking photos of them, being accosted in the water, etc. Unfortunately, a lot of men think that western women are loose (based on movies/TV/music videos) and like stuff like this.
Confronting them the way you did was right on. It might make them think twice next time they try something like this again. When I was researching “eve teasing” when I was in India, I read that there are organizations in India (eg., Blank Noise) who do post photos of harassers…so there is a precedent.
December 8th, 2008 at 10:20 am
In Australia they would have been arrested by police, the can be held by the surf life savers until police arrive. Its a criminal offence to take the type of pictures you described here. When I lived in Bali I never saw this problem.
You did the right thing but it sounds like in Inda it is acceptable
December 8th, 2008 at 3:25 pm
I do not think you over reacted at all. this is gross. I mean I love the female form but they took took it to a dirty next step.
December 8th, 2008 at 7:19 pm
Its complicated and simple. What they did was very wrong but its an issue in every beach around the globe. Indian culture/ Indian tourists in Goa! Its been a long process…Have you read ‘Hello goodnight: A Life of Goa’ by David Tomory. …Throughout the late 60s and up until the early 70’s, western hippies/freaks sunbathed nude in Goa, much to the chargin of locals. Given that sunbathing is a western import to India, do we share any responsibility as tourists in this process .. I have to go and have a think about this!
December 9th, 2008 at 9:17 am
I warned you about weekends on Goa’s beaches, remember?
But seriously, a harassment similar to the ones that Audrey describes happened to my girlfriend this summer in Labuan Bajo, Flores, Indonesia. We’ve been walking in the middle of the main road of the village when a group of maybe 15 school kids approached us. While we were smiling at them they started running and when passing by at us a couple of them grabbed the breasts of my girlfriend. Immediately after that they all split into different directions and started laughing. She was completely shocked and demanded me to do something, but as they were faster and already gone, I felt like a total idiot not being able to protect her…
December 9th, 2008 at 6:42 pm
Sorry for the late reply, my internet was down the last 2 days. Thanks for all your thoughts and additions!
Yep, I surely have mixed feelings about the whole situation. The culture is obviously not so open about the human body yet and it’s the whole country, but definitely not only India. So values or social perception might be different. Still an unpleasant scenario for us.
But then, it’s an international tourist destination as well, so yeah it’s really a mixed bag. It surely can and does happen anywhere else as well, I was just a bit shocked about countless similar reports on the internet. So maybe should’ve known beforehand to be prepared.
Anyway, to avoid situations like that in the future, we decided to
– cover up a bit more
– move to more deserted beaches (like Morjim in the north) for sun-tanning
– avoid Sundays when more local tourists from other, more conservative parts of India roam the beaches
:-B
December 9th, 2008 at 11:33 pm
Internet down? I had that so many times in India and weirdly it was always a “personal” down, not a network down. While I had full signal on my smartphone and an Airtel SIM card I could not access the net from it. A friend of mine with a similar phone and a SIM from the same provider, standing right next to me had no problems at all accessing the net. Some days later it was viceversa… :-/
What service are you using nowadays and how much do you pay for it? Is there still only GPRS or did they implement at least EDGE in the meantime?
December 10th, 2008 at 1:35 am
Juergen, don’t get me started about internet access! Okay, too late, here we go already:
I’m currently using Airtel for my mobile phone. Tried its GPRS, but it’s painfully slow in my area (although EDGE capable) and not very reliable. Sometimes full 5 bars, sometimes only 2, sometimes no connectivity even with 5 bars. Some websites are not accessible at all and they charge extra Rupees, when you use Yahoo’s website or other E-Mail services.
So I use Tata Indicom now, which is a CDMA 1x network via an USB dongle. It works quite well in the evenings and better after midnight. Uploads are really okay speeds. During the day you can usually forget about it, too slow. But that’s okay with me, as I’m mainly on the road then. It has a Rs 800 Data flat rate per month. Unfortunately they don”t tell or SMS you, when the month ends, so it ended abruptly just one evening 2 days ago. Upon recharging the next day I only learned the evening after, that you have core credit, which must be topped up as well – mine was in minus (because I did let the flat-rate run out without topping it up). So another day lost, as shops close early here.
Then I also tried a few days ago to get !dea Cellular working, it’s GSM EDGE as well, it worked the first day, similar speeds like Airtel, but slower than Tata Indicom. Unfortunately they deactivated it after 2 days again, as the shop where I bought the SIM card took its time to submit my registration documents. When they activated it again, they didn’t activate GPRS. You can’t reach the hotline, when dialing 4444 and haggling through their voice menu to operator assistance you get the message: “Thanks for calling the IDEA helpline, all operators are busy, your call is important to us, please call again later” and they hang up on you. That’s the case the whole time, so I gave up. The shop selling you the SIM card doesn’t care, as he made his business and the phone function works. GPRS? What is that? I might have to go to their business center in Panaji maybe, to get it working. They charge a flatrate of Rs 30 per day for GPRS usage, but I don’t know, why my credit is empty already, even though the initial SIM should come with Rs 250 and I topped it up already one-time with Rs 100. I never made a call, other than to their service number. Maybe they charge the whole month right away?
Other options I heard about are Vodafone (similar to Airtel) and BSNL mobile, whose coverage is said not to be so well in Goa. Ah yes, and Reliance Telecommunications, which caters more to business customers.
All connections are similar to Dial-up speeds, the speed numbers from the marketing departments are nowhere to be reached. Also they give speeds in kilobit/second (not kilobyte), which is quite misleading.
Other technologies like DSL seem to be available, but only if you have a land line, are a resident or run a business here. Honestly I see myself moving again after Q1/2009, so it’s maybe too much hassle to bother. So I will probably do with what I have right now.
Hmmmm, guess I have a lot to learn about India. *sigh* :D
December 13th, 2008 at 12:52 pm
India is notorious for harassment of women (particularly white women), it’s the whole colonialism and forbidden fruit thing. But in the flip side how many Indian women do you see walking around in bikinis, daisy dukes and tank tops without a bra. Basically it’s just something you have to deal with unless you want to dress like a nun…
December 16th, 2008 at 12:58 pm
That’s awful Chris, but I don’t think this is something anyone can combat. Sure you can confront the ones who come close to your perimeter, but what about those with long range zoom lenses, taking pics of you and your girlfriend from miles away? I think the world has gone so corrupt that whenever you’re out there you’re not a free man anymore. Imagine living in London, where your picture is taken over 300 times a day when you’re out of house? I think the key for maintaining your peace of mind in this situation is to know that you’re not the only “victim”, that everyone out there is just the same. I find freedom in anonymity, as long as they don’t know who I am I don’t give a crap. What do you think?
December 16th, 2008 at 12:59 pm
PS: Doesn’t mean you shouldn’t be careful out there. Do you want me to send you a taser gun for your girlfriend?
December 16th, 2008 at 11:37 pm
Of course it’s somehow not something that can be avoided completely. And sure, there might be even people with long zoom lenses (although I didn’t see any in India yet) – it was just the utter lack of respect and privacy in that moment from so close, that made us pretty upset. And yup, if you read up a bit further on the subject, it is probably more common in India, than other places in Asia. The invasion of privacy in London and other places with CCTV cameras and else in definitely another worrying topic.
December 21st, 2008 at 5:38 am
hey chris,
just look behind the borders of goa and you will get some awareness why indian man do behave as they did. i have been to goa for 2 month in 2006 (+ some months travelling through some states of india) and i even got the hint that there are indian companies selling these special “sightseeing trips”.
india: you will love it or hate it……
take care,
steff
December 22nd, 2008 at 8:00 pm
Oh yeah! And every Bollywood movie or Indian music video on MTV, VH1 here is full of erotic or sexual hints, ultra-short skirts, longing looks and ‘dirty’ dancing. So therefore it’s hard to see, why the behavior is so different. Or maybe because… :-/
December 27th, 2008 at 8:52 am
Wow!
I take pictures of every pretty Filipina I get a chance too. I don’t try to hide it. Many times I have to coax them into it. If someone doesn’t want me to take their picture, I don’t.
There is no reasonable expectation of privacy in a public place. it does seem kind of creepy to sneak the pictures though and sometimes they take extreme close ups of certain body areas that I’ve seen on porn sites around the net. That too is different. I like pretty girls and I make no apology for it. I also take pictures of lots of guys and children too. I like too photograph life.
I’ve never been to India, would love to visit.
January 5th, 2009 at 8:07 am
India is where girls get grabbed in crowds, I was trying to teach a young man in Sawegram, India has to be a little macho so he would not lose his girlfriend. It was funny, he had no idea how to protect the girl, and in this instance the girls was furious because he would not. India is full of small people, so not a big deal. Good Luck. Andy of HoboTraveler.com Travel Blog I suppose it is nice to have a girlfriend when in Goa, I love Palolem beach.
January 22nd, 2009 at 12:18 pm
It’s a shame that you had to experience this and from the comments it’s clear that it’s not as isolated occurrence but you handled it well.
February 3rd, 2009 at 8:40 am
Yuck. Indian men can be overly aggressive here in the U.S. too. I’ve run into a couple who ( when hitting on me as a complete stranger ) that just couldn’t get ” no ” . I don’t think their behavior would have been the same if I had the same coloring as them. That said ……. I’m referring to a few examples out of MANY respectful and intelligent Indian men that I’ve met in San Francisco ( there is a huge Indian poplutation ) . For the ” bad apples ” I was referring to ….. I am almost positive my lighter skin and hair played a factor.
March 8th, 2009 at 3:46 pm
I just got back from there. had the WORST EXPERIENCE in India. I agree with Audrey…
!!!!White women should NEVER Travel to India!!!!!
The Indian men are very disrespectful in that they eye us Western women like predators and are looking for opportunities to rape if they could I am convinced.
I got harassed, abused, groped, you name it by these NASTY **** ******* **** ***** **** *** hindus.
The recent news of rape (and in some cases killing) is proof that its very DANGEROUS in India for a Western woman to travel to India. Please do not go there if you wish to be safe!!!
remark: racist/insulting slurps deleted by Chris, please remain civil, as I otherwise have to delete these comments in the future..
March 26th, 2009 at 5:32 pm
Dear,
Can you please tell me do Goa has a Nude Beach. Becoz i come to know that in Kerala / Pondicherry & Goa has a nude beaches. If it is true then govt has approved or it is illegal against the law.
March 27th, 2009 at 2:02 am
mohanan, are you serious? There is no such thing like a nude beach in Goa. Do you have one in Saudi Arabia? No? Why not? Religion and Politics? Ah so! Same here in India.
If there are nude beaches in Kerala, then they are definitely illegal or at least not official. With the number or rapes and sexual crimes here, I sometimes think they should allow a bit more laxer rules, be it on TV, or concerning the segregation of sexes in the public. Maybe that’s what causing plenty of hormonal distress and leads to even more dangerous actions. You can’t believe how many articles each day are in the newspapers here regarding rape, sexual molestation of minors, assault from groups of men against women and similar.
Sorry for the rant, but Religion and Politics my *ss! x(
April 4th, 2009 at 2:13 am
wait a min…
u all westerners are talking as if there are no cases of rape/molestation/harassment in your country.For your kind info US has the most number of rape cases(According to the data, 18,359 rape cases were registered in India in the first three quarters of this year while in the US, 93,934 and in South Africa 54,926 rape cases were registered respectively.)google it out and get your facts right.
As far as ogling is concerned ,yes india is a lot conservative,so as far as human(men’s) instinct is concerned,you ought to stare at something unusual and attractive;who on this earth has asked you to expose to such as extent that people find it difficult to keep their eyes away from???(when in rome do as the romans do—remember,similarly when in India do as the Indians do).
So instead of using slang words and making racist comments make sure you yourself are totally ideal.
By saying so i am not at all advocating their behavior.
IT WAS TOTALLY WRONG ON THEIR PART,BUT YOU TOO ARE RESPONSIBLE TO CERTAIN EXTENT FOR IT.
comments welcome(no abusive n slang words plz)
April 4th, 2009 at 3:37 am
Kunal, you have some very good and valid points there.
While I wouldn’t go as far as Jennifer commenting above, my own rant at comment #21 was obviously pretty harsh also. I didn’t want to talk only about India. But I still think that societies which promote (and enforce) the segregation of the sexes have more issues with rapes, freedom of thought and acceptance and respect of women in their own societies.
And while the number of rapes in India might probably be lower, only 1 in 70 cases are even reported. And why? Because the victim would have to fear revenge, beating, killings, acid attacks/kerosene burnings or humiliation by neighbors, family or even the police. You can read about this every day in the daily newspapers, I read here regularly the Times of India, the Goan Herald, The Asian Age, the NavHindTimes and they are full with it.
Also of every reported case, only 20% lead to conviction.
That doesn’t mean that the US or Europe are better off. Any rape, molestation or harassment of girls or women are 1 too many.
It was our mistake to assume falsely, that at an international travel destination like Goa you could behave like in other beach destinations, like Phuket, Ibiza or Bali and swim in a ‘normal’ beach attire. So that’s a lesson learned.
My main point with this article is that other people should be aware of it also and act accordingly.
April 4th, 2009 at 6:33 pm
i don’t think being topless fits into definition of “normal” beach attire by any means.N mind you i am not making an over statement,i have been to Goa just once and that too for 2 days and was surprised to see about 5 topless girls on a single beach…..
I too agree with you that the travelers need to be warned about such things,but people making racist and biased comments is totally unacceptable.N please don’t bring religion into it,the lady there has used a TOTALLY WRONG word.As if people from other religions like christianity are flawless, FOR YOUR KIND INFO MANY OF THE LOCALS IN GOA ARE CHRISTIANS.IT HURTS RELIGIOUS SENTIMENTS OF PEOPLE LIKE ME.
April 4th, 2009 at 10:07 pm
Kunal, who said anything about being topless? Okay, I was topless, but then I’m male. The article is about a girl in a bikini; but as I said before, lesson learned. Better not to do in Goa, if you want to avoid being harassed. I have no understanding for girls going topless in Goa, as that’s completely off the line and shows no respect for the locals, even though Goa was actually known as the “free love” center during the hippie times of the 60’s and 70’s.
And I agree with you 100% that we should avoid racist comments, that’s why I edited the above comment by Jennifer.
Now – religion for me is a different thing, I’m completely against clerics and priests who bend their religion for their own needs, be it Muslims, Christians, Hindu, Buddhists or whom else. They suppress natural emotions and normal human behavior. And you have black sheep (extremists) in all major religions, be it the Pope, Islamic Sharia extremists, Buddhist Extremists in Sri Lanka, or Hindus who try to kill/burn the houses of their Muslim neighbors.
My motto is “live and let live”, it makes no sense to force other people to live under the rules of one religion, if they don’t want to accept it. That’s why the separation of church and state is a good thing in most developed societies. Unfortunately many people in countries where the government is run by clerics don’t have a choice.
April 5th, 2009 at 5:12 pm
Chris: what u did was totally right. those men had no right to photograph your girlfriend without her explicit permission. and zooming in was totally unacceptable. n if you had to yell, d locals would definitely help you, they would have confiscated d camera n handed it over to d cops.
However, I would like to clarify here that these perverts are generally people from other states of India n not Goans. Thats y you’ll encounter such incidents mostly on weekends, when they come down to Goa. Goans are very open, hospitable and peaceful people, and we do not indulge in such perverted acts (now we do appreciate the female form, but we would not secretly photograph).
N what you say is right, only a small % of cases r reported. But not d case in Goa, here, thankfully, d people r more liberalised n segregation of sexes isn’t as bad as many other places in India.
Kunal: I agree that Jennifer made some nasty comments towards our religion, which is generalizing n totally out of line.
That said, u say that u were in Goa 4 just 2 days. May I ask you how much do u know about d Goan culture? As u say, when in Rome do as Romans do, n Goa is a very different Rome. Different states in India have their own culture, and Goa’s is totally different. Thankfully, we do not have the same kind of perverts originating here as in d rest of our country.
I myself am saddened immensely to see their perceptions. most of them think that Goa is a place for booze n easy sex, that they can get laid easily by our western guests. I hv traveled numerous times by train n upon realising I’m a Goan, people ask me so where r d nude beaches? sad.
places like Delhi n Mumbai are worse. perverted males keep bumping into females, whether Indian or western, at every opportunity. n no1 bothers to protest. In Delhi, my cousin was actually followed back to her hotel by some shady character. n thats no isolated incident. U proud of this culture??? I am ashamed of it.
I dunno from which state you are, but yes bikinis are normal beach attire in Goa. n so r topless tourists, though the Goa Govt. has officially banned that. it is said that it was banned due to pressure from the Central Govt of India. We, Goan locals, do not mind it. n in a broad sense of generalisation, the demeanor of foreign tourists is much better than Indian tourists. Its sad. I mostly see Indian tourists littering the beaches, spitting all over (that too red colored paan or gutkha), writing names on heritage sites, n generally misbehaving after getting drunk. real sad.
April 5th, 2009 at 10:09 pm
Rakesh, I noticed that also, that many weekend tourists from other states tarnish the reputation of Goans. You can see their cars at most of the tourist spots and viewpoints in the state. And not only Foreigners, but Goan women are harassed also.
The problem is maybe a bit deeper ingrained in their upbringing, tight family and caste traditions and traditional role models behavior. I hope, that with India obviously becoming more and more modern due to the opening of its economy and society towards modern democratic viewpoints, this ‘medieval’ behavior will slowly disappear.
Nothing is lost and we are all on this planet to learn and move forward.
April 6th, 2009 at 12:36 am
@Rakesh
No culture teaches man to be a pervert,so its not in Indian culture to be a pervert.Well you should be ashamed of yourself coz u thought so.
People turning into perverts are the immediate side effects of westernization of thoughts and ideas.
See when there is a scarcity of something people flock to see it and are attracted towards it,this is the main problem
In western countries people are used to seeing people females topless,so its not a point of attraction for them.
Slowly the more westernized India becomes these will ware off,meaning people wont even bother to look even if a blonde female comes topless near you.
But yes it will take time.
I know some people are hopeless and harass women,but no country is an exception.Such hopeless people are to be found in every country be it any country(US,Australia,SA,etc).No country has a zero crime rate(if your comments were true ,more the advanced country less the crime rate).
Chris said that the number of cases registered where less in india,he also gave a ratio of 70:1(i dont know where he go that from),but you are neglecting the major point,did you compare the population of India with US,so if u c the ratio of crime to population is far less in India than US.
Let me clarity “By Saying so,i m in no way advocating such hopeless behavior by people”
So dont generalize this issue to any particular country.A particular group of people here are responsible not the entire nation.
Its a pity that you being an Indian,Rakesh made such comments.
One more sad thing is people like you tend to divide people on the basis of state.It sounds from your statement that you are just a GOAN and not an INDIAN.
April 6th, 2009 at 12:39 am
one more point,no-one in this world is perfect,we can just move a step towards perfection.
I know our pace towards improvement is slow,but still steadily we are moving towards being the next super Power.(inspite of many odds like corruption,population,etc)
April 12th, 2009 at 2:21 am
i was in india with my family a few years ago, i was 12, i was very conservativly clothed with long shirts and baggy pants, even getting off a bus with my parents i was groped and pressed against and im not over reacting, it was very busy and when women are pressed against you and you compare it with ALL the men you know you are being harrassed. I saw one woman walking with a group of friends all wearing longish shorts and tshirts and a group of men pulled her to the ground and pulled up her top and groped her in broad daylight (northern goa)
April 12th, 2009 at 2:28 am
also to kunal, i have never ever been treated this way in the uk and yet it was every where i turned in goa and it was clear these men were local or at least inidan so why blame westernisation? so its ok for people to act on primal instincts and show no restraints even towards children? if western women put it about so much then surely western men see so many more opportunity around these “whores” why is the worst youll get in the uk usually a wink or a “your looking nice tonight?”
April 13th, 2009 at 2:46 am
@anya you are not getting my point;what i meant was the westernization is exposing indians to things that they havent seen before,so few hopeless men who cant control their instincts are acting senselessly.
Well sorry to hear that such things happened to you and few(or rather many,as per your view) other travellers.but all i want to say is plz and plz dont generalize the whole event to entire country and all Indians.All indians or rather goans in this question aren’t bad.
And all i mean to say is no country is free from such people.
April 25th, 2009 at 6:36 pm
Really thoughtful discussion, I feel what happen to That girl was not correct, but rightly said by kunal that you cannot genralise these for all indians. I was twice in Goa and i make few foriegners good friend of mine from Italy as they were in my hotel. There girlfriends taken my photographs and even i have photograph of mine with their girlfriend in bikini and snapped taken by them from my camera, it can be taken out with permission than there is no problem but without permission you can’t.
Now i will raise a similar issue when tourist came from outside take the photographs of baggers in india on roadside, or taking photographs of slums of india and potrayed them the true picture of india, will they take any permission? it is a similar issue, the interest of a persons. Please ensure from all tourist not to take such type of photographs in india, i will ensure you these thing will not happend in india(Photo at beach), You thinks what you do is always correct? it is not man. Rest discussion with you later.
Thanks
April 29th, 2009 at 3:52 am
Vineet, good points! And no, I’m not always correct, never said that. To take pictures of unknown people in their day-to-day situations without their permissions is surely not right at all. And yeah, beggars won’t probably be in any position to object. Taking pictures of people you meet and get to know is something different. There is always a fine line for sure. Slums are not nice, but are a part of India or other countries also. Even Italy has plenty of dirty corners, the same can be said about Germany or probably any other country on this planet.
June 22nd, 2009 at 2:02 pm
well….so much being said and so many arguments being made….what conclusion do we arrive to?
Let me start off with saying that i have been to goa number of times and have witnessed many a times fellow Indian males taking photograph of western women while they are sun bathing or swimming in the sea.Seriously one cannot deny such event and say its an isolated event.
Funny thing is any film magazine or bollywood
movie one would surely find some indian actress dancing in bikini or few white women( predominently eastern european) doing a back up dance in bikini ….then why such things happen?
Over the years the image of Goa has been made such as a paradise or an escape route to cheap booze and scoring with white women.
Now the question is who are this men who involve in such shameful activities?
They are the average middle class indians who wants to take such pics and show to friends back home claiming they have spent a night with this girls and use the photograph as an evidence to the story.
This people neither have the mental outset nor are they aware of contemporary western cilvilisation and its an universal truth ” you seek what you don’t have”.Its also a fact indians in general have a weakness for fair skinned( ever seen an african women being clicked ???)
Now to check such behaviour …..stringent law has to be placed and beach patrol should be initiated to identify such men and place a hefty fine on spot or confiscate their camera.
It saddens me to a great extent that such events are tarnishing the image of the country and branding India and indians as primitive cultured people.
Please do not stop visiting India for i believe India is still one of the most beautiful and diverse country on this planet. All that is needed is to deal such incidents firmly and send out the message that such behaviour is not acceptable in India.
June 22nd, 2009 at 9:35 pm
sumantra, you are right, it’s not worth to not visiting India, due to some Perverts or medieval mindsets. I hope that by pointing those occasions out, things will also change, as people will hopefully feel embarrassed and adjust their behavior over time.
July 9th, 2009 at 11:34 am
Chris,
I feel for your girl dude. If my girl was being photographed, I would’ve tossed the phone into the beach (of course after deleting all the pictures). I was born in Gujarat but I remember going to Goa beach when I was little (in 1993), and there were a lot topless women. I don’t remember a single lady, since I was too busy avoiding their sight.
Other than that. I was born in India and raised in the US. Went there last summer and I know the perverts. Trust me! You did nothing wrong. You have to protect your women. And for other Indians here L-)
July 11th, 2009 at 9:27 am
How spot on! I was not aware of it until a fruit seller lady on Anjuna beach, whom we knew from previous fruit transaction and eventually became friends with, told me that these guys behind our towels were getting ready to take my picture in all my glory when I was just getting off the water. Interestingly, a bit of confrontation in a gracious manner seemed to work for me. I didn’t even have to raise my voice, just a simple, “are you guys okay there?” could make them smiled sheepishly and put away their camera. Evidently, according to our new friend, these fellers travelled all the way down from Mumbai just to perve on female tourists on the beach. We found a new solution though; the deserted Mandrem beach for my maximum Goan beach experience. Bliss!!!!!
Oh ,this is a bit out of context, but Chris or anyone, can you tell me if it is do-able to travel around China in February? Anyone have some pointers for us in terms of the dos and the don’ts? TA!
July 12th, 2009 at 5:06 pm
:(( come on…western woman visiting India, use your brains…do you see Indian women running around in hot pants shorts, spaghetti strap t-shirts, showing a lot of skin in India? Do you see Indian women in skimpy bikinis on the beaches of Goa or anywhere in India? Do you see them sunbathe without their tops? Well…now you know why Indian men view you crazy white woman in India in this way. Did you know you white women are an Indian tourist attraction? Yes…those guys come to Goa to especially look at you in your bikinis. If you white women don’t want Indian men to harass you…cover them big freckly boobs of yours! Cover that ass. Use your brains! This is not the French Riviera. I know…I have traveled extensively in India and witnessed this. Even spent a month in Goa.
July 13th, 2009 at 10:18 am
wyling sun, maybe you have to read again. There is nothing about western women (she is Asian) and nobody went topless or in skimpy outfits, just a standard swimming suit. Others have similar problems, not only in India, elsewhere also. I remember suit-and-tie dressed Indians roaming the beaches of Sentosa in Singapore with a video camera in their hand, salivating about everything even remotely in swimming attire.
Unjaded, that’s probably the best solution to avoid the more touristy beaches and head for the deserted ones (not that Anjuna is overly touristy, these days you see more locals there…but maybe that’s the reason…)
Nick, don’t worry – that’s not a general Indian problem and maybe it will disappear at all with the continuing modernization of India. That could of course bring other issues also, but that’s maybe the way it goes. :-/
July 16th, 2009 at 5:42 pm
Hey Nice discussion,
Does anyone take pictures in a zoo ? The answer is we all do .It is the novelty factor for godsake .Thats how it seems to an average indian male who comes from a conservative spiritual society with high moral values where exposed flesh is a rarity.
The majority of indians are decent law abiding hardworking individuals .There are perverts and rapists in every society ,so pls dont generalise
If i walked down the middle of Wall street dressed as a saadhu with a long beard ,a kamandalam and long saffron robes i would get plenty of attention too .
If you dont want the attention cover up and wear a salwaar kameez like the indians do and sunbathe in the western hemisphere.
July 16th, 2009 at 9:09 pm
GROW UP GIRLS!
You want it all your own way…you wake up and guess what – you’re not in KANSAS!……..
Travel O/S and grow a bit of backbone….hassles happen to guys travelling in India too..I traveled wearing my Scottish kilt…AND I know to expect all kinds of good and not so good attentions..
If it too much as precious Jenny says -DONT GO..
I’m sure she ‘safe’ back home in her gun toting good old US of A…..Not much overt grabbing – there just the worst gun related violence in the west..
I know what i’d choose!
July 18th, 2009 at 12:26 am
That’s horrible. I wouldn’t want to be into such kind of situation. I’m glad that here in the Philippines, I didn’t heard so far such kind of acts…
July 19th, 2009 at 10:47 am
True, when you go to a beach for swimming here in the Philippines, people here usually back off, leave you to your own devices and respect your privacy.
September 14th, 2009 at 2:40 pm
This is shameful for India, but you see, this is what 5000 years of religion and philosophy has made of us. And the stalking behavior are actually the birth pangs of India’s new found sexual frankness. Our (so called) decency, culture and traditions prevent us from enjoying life in it’s natural essence, that’s why many Indians have to resort to gazing at what they can never do, or become.
September 19th, 2009 at 4:28 pm
Well Welll Well. I can conclude from this thread that you guys are wasting time. And i also wasted time reading all this bullshit. How the hell you want privacy in a public place. I had been to INDIA with my girlfriend. People there are so helpful and friendly. You cant generalize your statements based on a few people. Ofcourse, you are behaving on beaches as u behave in your bed room. Be in your limits, and there will be no harm. I would like to visit GOA every year…..
September 20th, 2009 at 11:55 am
John, if you would have read the article, you would not make such unqualified comments. It’s okay to defend India or Goans for that matter, but read the facts first and comment then. L-)
September 20th, 2009 at 4:02 pm
Hi, I am currently in Goa. I read this article. Its quite useful. Though i didnt find any problem in Goa till now. But i will be more cautious now after reading this article. John is right, people are very undersanding and helpful.
September 21st, 2009 at 8:22 pm
Hey Chris, I actually got to your site searching for options to hire a car in Bali and the prices of petrol. And this thread really got me going. Especially because it is about a place I love and call home.
Try and visualise this.
A group of Indians, educated, smart decent folks (at home) come to Goa. They are all wearing an “I love Goa” T-shirt, Ray Ban sun glasses, a pouch around their waist along with a camera, plaid socks and leather shoes. They move around in small groups of 3-4, searching for that elusive white dream. Their own background limits their interactions with women, and their concept of a white woman is drawn from Hollywood where the women knock off their panties in a flash.
Now this group has a limited duration stay in Goa. 4-5 days maximum. Mostly arranged across a long weekend. Their goal is to drink and get laid by those wonderful white beauties who are just waiting for their paunchy Indian man to sweep them of their feet and bed them. Believe me, that is the way they visualise their stay in Goa. They are obnoxious and disgusting. From the way they treat the service personnel, to the way they treat the environment. I am a Goan, and this really infuriates me to see this happen in my home.
A few of the other Indian posters here asked that we not generalise. But when one is faced with this situation time after time after time, what else does one do other than generalise. Walk onto the beaches of Anjuna, Calangute or Candolim, and you will experience the same first-hand (unless of course you want us to be a Taliban state with women in burkas bathing in the sea. Dont get me started with that….). Being an Indian, it fills me with shame. Having had this happen to women in my company fills me with rage. I guess staying away from the beaches on the weekends and moving onto more deserted beaches is an option, but I hate to be forced into those options.
But India is like the land of Janus. Meet the same man at home. Have his sister introduce you, and he won’t even look you in the eye. It is almost like the anonymity of being in Goa brings out his animal instinct and all chivalry goes out the window.
I love Goa, the peaceful laid back attitude where “sussegad” rules. Where the music and feni make strangers the best of friends. Where it is ok to let it hang out and just be yourself…….. Unfortunately, thats exactly what brought us to this thread in the first place.
btw, are you still in Goa? Will be back in december. Would love to meet .
November 2nd, 2009 at 6:09 am
thanks to hollywood and porn industry of california most of the males in india thinks thats white women are easy to get to bed. and what you see or get commnets from them its the result of that. i personnelly felt that until i came to usa.
November 6th, 2009 at 6:21 pm
Hi Chris,
I am an Indian man and have dated a few European women. I am now married to an Indian woman. I think all cultures have their ups and downs. I mean I do think what those guys did was wrong but then again, it is a personal opinion. In a public place, I do not think you can really complain about being photographed. If someone did that to my wife, I would be real angry just like you were. However, if my wife were wearing a bikini or skimpy clothes in a repressed country like India, she would be giving wrong signals. I can proudly say that till date, I have never harassed any woman and never even gotten involved in eve teasing even when friends of mine did that. However, in general, India is a pretty repressed society because of the number of hypocrites we have. This does not mean all Indian men are perverts and to relate this to culture and religion is preposterous to say the least. True, rape cases are not reported in India and that could be a reason why India does not have as many rape cases as in the USA. But, the USA has its share of perverts too. If you want to quote an example, quote Germany or many European countries, where women can more often than not get home at even 4am in the night without being attacked or raped. I am not sure the USA is one of those countries. It is like the pot calling the kettle black. Don’t get me wrong. I am not criticizing you but sometimes it is worthwhile to understand the differences in the culture in a country before you behave like you are say in the USA. A problem with many Americans is that they see the world from their own perspective at all times. This does not mean all Americans are shit heads, does it? Also, in the USA, many guys stare at women in Bikinis though in a more subtle way. I had a few American friends who were really perverted but they were subtle about it. That is the difference. Many repressed Indian men see a lot of cheap porn films which show white women removing their panties at the drop of a hat. This is not representative of the ordinary white woman. Still, when an ordinary white woman lies on a beach revealing half her breasts and a lot more down south, this can attract the repressed perverted Indian man. Why not just take a look around, understand your surroundings and behave likewise?
November 6th, 2009 at 6:28 pm
Mike,
By the way, white women in general are easier to bed. I have an Indian friend here who came to Germany and in a span of one year, he had sex with at least 8-10 white women. Sometimes, some white women do give an impression that they are easy and many of them are easy. This is however, no reason to force yourself upon them or to attack them. My advice to white women visiting India;
Cover up and trust your instincts. If you think India sucks and the USA or your country is better, don’t visit India
Better to be safe than sorry.
November 21st, 2009 at 8:13 pm
Those who want privacy in public places and they dont want to be photographed in bikini, either dont wear bikini or dont visit india.
Even whores in india dont dare to wear bikinis in a public place (beach is a public place)
L-)
Anyways, i think if one can dare bikini, she should bare this much in asian countries. You cant force your values and tradition on another country…..
November 23rd, 2009 at 9:58 am
Matt, again. Who can read has clear advantages. No white woman exposed half her breasts here anywhere. Though I agree with most of your observations, that doesn’t make the behavior of this perverts right or acceptable in any way. And it doesn’t help to blame the victim, like it is so common in India, whenever there is injustice done to a woman.
sidharth, I won’t comment again on things that have been said many times. I even agree with you that it’s not a good idea to visit India, if you are a civilized woman and plan to go to the beach in a swimming suit. Better to go elsewhere. >:)
November 24th, 2009 at 9:52 pm
Chris,
I did not say that your wife exposed half her breasts(not that you said I said your wife did that) but some white women in India do go over the top. Read about a UK girl who was raped and before that, she was happily doing drugs with the locals? If you want to stay out of trouble, do you do drugs with locals you hardly know even when you know you are in a repressed society?Where did I blame the victim? Let me make it clear. There is no excuse for rape or perverted behaviour. However, there are reasons and sometimes, there are inadvertent invitations from women not to be raped but signals that they might be loose in character. I am just saying that one has to be careful how one dresses in different parts of India. I am not saying that your wife deserved what happened to her. You say that one who can read has clear advantages. Well, it applies to everyone:) I am just saying that in a repressed society like India, wearing a bikini is bound to invite perverts. That is all. By the way, the country where you come from is not exactly safe for women. There are some places in the USA where the chances of being raped or mugged are higher than in say Mumbai. The lady here does not even have to be in a bikini:) I think you forgot that the USA has the highest number of serial rapists and killers.
November 24th, 2009 at 9:57 pm
Only a week back or so ,there was a report that a girl was raped by a gang of men in a school or so. So, do I go over the top and say that the USA is uncivilized given that you already hinted that India is uncivilized?
November 24th, 2009 at 11:51 pm
Matt, I’m sorry, but your explanations sound to me like an excuse. Goa is advertised as a beach destination – in Europe, Asia and elsewhere. What’s the point of that if you can’t go to a beach in beach attire? I agree, that India is a repressed society and it’s definitely better to avoid ‘provoking actions’ when going there as a tourist. Lesson learned.
Sure, the Scarlett Keeling case is an interesting, yet controversial example, what can happen when you are not careful enough, although the cover up of the rape, murder and ongoing accusations by politicians and in the local media against her mother and relatives are also the same thing – finding reasons, why she deserved it or why it was the victim’s fault, while completely forgetting who did what here. I don’t advocate the use of drugs in the company of strangers for sure, but a rape is a rape, murder is murder – it’s all crimes by individuals against a weaker individual. That doesn’t make the drug use by an 15-year old teenager right.
And by the way again: who can read has clear advantages. “The country where I come” from is not the USA. Sure you can compare India and the USA, just to deflect from the facts and that’s probably right, that in the US the numbers are higher. But what does it have to do with the injustice in that or other cases, if someone has more criminals than one side? Does that make it any less criminal?
November 25th, 2009 at 5:07 pm
Chris,
My bad that I kind of arrogantly guessed that you were from the USA. Now, let’s get to the point. There was a report recently that Scarlett’s mom was arrested in the UK for some kind of crime. You must have read what I said. I am not giving any excuses for rape. There is no excuse for rape and I already said that. I do not want to go to the “who can read has clear advantages†again. However, anywhere in the world, when a crime is committed against anyone else, if the victim has questionable character, the case is looked at differently. I am sure you know this. It may not be right but if a prostitute complains about being raped, her case will be handled very differently. I am not saying the young girl was a prostitute but her actions(if reports are true) were not something a moral woman would do. Of course, blaming a rape victim for the rape is despicable to say the least but hey, the world is not a perfect place and it is full of scumbags who have no conscience. And many people in India (mainly politicians) do not have any conscience. That is why India is what it is today.We have a lot of very smart people but a lot more very very stupid and evil people that makes India what it is today. My main objection to a lot of what was written on your blog was that many people started hinting that most if not all Indian men were perverts. As I said, I can proudly say that I have never sexually harassed any woman right from my college days even when many classmates of mine indulged in eve teasing at least.
Last but not the least,I was not comparing the USA to India to deflect facts. I was comparing it because I thought you were from the USA and then your whole criticism looked like the pot calling the kettle black. The truth is that every country has problems but some countries are more fucked up and India is one of them. I am proud to be Indian but I am not proud of how my country is. It is a catch 22 situation for people like me. We leave our country because we can leave and most of the Indians abroad like say in the USA or Europe are really smart. Yet, in most countries, we will always be foreigners.Indians in the USA have the highest per capita income among all ethnic groups. Why? Because there are a lot of very smart people Indians who migrated to the USA. I live in Germany. Germany does not have so many Indians but most of the Indians here at least have master degrees. The funny thing is that some of the highly educated Indian people are perverted. It has to do with their upbringing and because India is repressed. However, I lived in a repressed country too(though I spent eleven years of my life in Kuwait). I did not turn out to be perverted. Of course, I am deviating from the whole topic at hand but what I am trying to say is that there are always reasons for why people turn out to be assholes. However, one cannot say that these reasons are excuses.
By the way, which country are you from?
November 25th, 2009 at 10:02 pm
>:)
u take any place in world you will find both the sides on a same coin….its up to you what u want to keep into ur memories…just respect the culture you r travelling…or dont travell at all if u cant ignore some small things like these! carry good memories drop bad one !!!
December 12th, 2009 at 10:55 pm
i am an Orthodox indian born and brought up in india.i must concede that the average indian male is obsessed with female nudity. the reason might be that the only nude women we see before being married are half-crazed “bhikharins” i.e. beggar women.there is a lot of surreptitious ogling of women during religious baths. as far as goa is concerned i have been there a few times.i should say the sights of caucasian women in thongs and g-strings lying around, zipping along on bikes in kurtas with bare thighs showing is enough to cause a riot.
the thing is every bloody macho indian has one dream of his life as far as sex is concerned- doing it with a white woman and boasting of it to his friends.thing is we cover up our own women as tight as possible and pay our way to goa to stare at whte women. the fools don’t bother with swimwear themselves! they roam the beaches fully clad. i saw one of those on a beach chair under an umbrella once!can you believe that?sunbathing with your clothes on?
December 13th, 2009 at 9:04 pm
i want to add a nother bit to my comment. there is also a recklss disregard for decency among white women in goa.once i was at an ancient temple in goa with my family. it was broad daylight, noon to be specific. there was an israeli family there – two elderly women one young guy and a young woman. the young woman had on a dress/frock just barely covering her crotch.it was quite flimsy and light. what doyou think happened next? a gust of wind swept up the dress.and underneath?a g-string! both cheeks of her butt in their full glory! men women adolescent boys staring dumbfounded at the sight.the girl was oblivious to it all. she was cooly clicking away photos with her digital camera! now a g-string might be ok on a beach but can’t you wear sensible clothes/innerwear in public places. i know western women wear thongs/g- strings as regular innerwear but then the “frock” had to be sensible.it was little more than a vest.
another thing about sunbathing in goa. some of the members of this blog have suggested using “secluded” beaches for tanning. there is always the possibility of being preyed upon for rape in this option. no one to help on a deserted beach. hell! you could get killed for your I-Pod/digital camera/petty cash on a deserted beach.don’t even think of it! what would i suggest? a “cordoned” beach behind the hotels like the Taj or the Majorda resort?
December 22nd, 2009 at 5:47 am
Hi Chris…i completely understand your concern. But do u think its only Indian males who ogle at bikinis or boobs?dont the english or the americans treat women as pussies and say yum yum at the sight of big boobs?think once.
December 22nd, 2009 at 9:37 am
Nikhil, I don’t know what kind of Americans or English people you know, but my experience is that generally only a few people treat women as ‘pussies’ or utter whatever words loudly at the sight of a covered big breast. Definitely I don’t want to hang out with them.
Surely enough, you have black sheep in every nationality, so why generalize.
Anyway, again – this article is not about ogling or letting your eyes wander; but trying to take pictures of the better parts of ones girlfriend at a public beach without asking.
December 23rd, 2009 at 3:29 pm
The entire subcontinent is a joke!!! Why anyone in their right mind would want to travel and spend money there is beyond me.
India in particular, claims to be the world’s largest democracy, but you only have to scratch the surface to reveal the rampant corruption and profound stupidity . I have been and I’ve seen.
If you are female it is NOT a good idea to travel there. If you are a white female, it’s DEFINITELY NOT a good idea to travel there. You will most certainly have regrets. There are lots of cheaper, closer & safer alternatives than India.
The subcontinent in general, has some very deep-rooted cultural abnormalities, some of which stem from their over-whelming fascination with religion.
December 24th, 2009 at 2:31 pm
Unless you are looking into some slave and master sexual experience perhaps. :))
January 12th, 2010 at 7:44 pm
I do not understand why some Indian men think having sex with a white woman is something so great. I highly disagree with some people here who think that most Indian men want to have sex with a white woman. I have been living in Europe for almost four years. I have dated a few women here( for short periods) but I never tried to sleep with any of them though some of them were more than ready to sleep with a non- European like me who they consider exotic. All this cheap behaviour displayed by some Indian men is because India is sexually repressed. Also, there are many white men who are equally perverse. I have studied with many men from the western world and I can vouch that they are some equally cheap men. Just that they are surreptitious
Mag,
India may be a joke to you. Sure, India is still a third world country in spite of all claims to the contrary but then again, not all is well in the western world too especially in the USA or in Australia( where you come from). Australia is full of racists and most of the Aussies have descended from prisoners. What more can you expect.? Families break up at the drop of a hat in western countries. Women and men sleep around at the drop of a hat. So, before you say any country is a joke, make sure your country is perfect.
February 20th, 2010 at 1:48 pm
i m a proud india born and brought up in delhi.though i have never been to goa but these stupid things talked of about gals been treated unfairly everywhere is just an insensible thought.The foolish westereners talking with A BIG mouth here forget that back in their own country the cases of rape of women and outraging their modesty is not rare.Here i completely agree with MAG as their country is far from perfection they have no right to blame the others.in addition to this the gal coming from other developed country forget the culture and custom of this country and the place where gals keep their modesty in the most decent manner these gal from foreign dont leave one single chance to pull off their clothes as if it is a burden which should be releived as early as one gets a chance(leave the exceptions).the cases of eve-teasing in very much there in their countries and they are blaming mine.the kind of brutality these show towards humanity is some thing could not be elaborated is words…my only advice-Peep inside yourself before cursing others……
February 21st, 2010 at 10:54 am
Goa is the worst place to visit. India should be last in your list to travel. I am an Indian and I don’t like what I see here.
:(( :(( :((
February 24th, 2010 at 1:39 pm
I am extremely disturbed and sorry for what Chris has written. In a country of over billion souls, few stupids are spoiling the name of the country and there religion.
Do register the case with police if you come across anything like this.
March 12th, 2010 at 3:16 pm
NICE ARTICLE…….
its true that indians are d biggesst perverts in this world,but not goans d original goans.cuz d original goans r been born from d hippie time & they r used 2 see naked chics from childhood so they r used 2 it..so dont blame d locals…im a goan
March 19th, 2010 at 11:09 pm
im living in singapore, the indians that comes here from india ARE always involved in some sex crimes even their professionals..hte last one was where a group of indians start to grope and molest a girl violently on the beach ..i think its the indian culture to do so …totally disgusting
March 25th, 2010 at 8:13 pm
Hahahaha!
When u can’t be offensive, be defensive! But Akshay has been both…
Did any1 tell u that Goa is a part of India?? Or u live in the concept of “ignorance is bliss”!
U know Chris, I really feel bad about what happened to ur girlfriend. Its a shame. And being a woman, and an Indian woman its seriously upsetting. I will definitely not deny that a huge chunk of male population in my country are sex starved perverts, but then u also ought to know that in a population of a billion u are going to come across all types of people.
Though u will find a lot of women donning bikinis in our movies but u will find very few doing a dare-bare act in real life.
Ofcoz i understand when u say about wearing beach attire in a beach but then u have to consider social nd cultural obstructions here which u have to consider. Even a modern girl like me who has no hassles donning a bikini in a foreign land will never think of wearing 1 in my own country unless its a private pool.
i do respect the fact that u have very rationally & calmly discussed dis vit people and have had a very balanced outlook to dis entire discussion. U are a real sport.
But its reallysad to read sum people’s comments.
@Alexiginola u have no idea about Indian culture. We had a proper language and a civilized society evn b4 ur ancestors wore clothes and were still romping naked.
And Earlyretired is mentally retired as well it seems.
India is a beautiful country but only if you come with the right attitude. Don’t let negative comments affect you. And I hope you do enjoy the rest of your stay here & come across some wonderful Indians like me.
March 31st, 2010 at 7:12 am
Hey..im from india new delhi
well sorry to hear u guys had to face these problems
the real problem with my country is that is is divided into 2 sections.. the educated and the uneducated cuz due to the war and other things about a 100 years back ppl from bangladesh, pakistan and other poor countries fled for shelter in india.. and thus they form the majority 91% of the poor in india..they are really conservatice , illeterate and for them this all is really new ppl in bikini and all..and yes they are cheap i totally agree with you..but not everywhere its like this.. you visit delhi, mumbai go to any night club u want do whatever u wont face any problems as they are the major cities and there its normal..i mean ppl in india, thier thinking is still in the formation stage itll take a few years but then itll be ok…..anyways u can complain to the police about the pictures and all its an offence in india as well..so if u had complained those guys would be taken away immediately..
April 5th, 2010 at 5:17 am
So many discussions…so many spitfires.. so many allegations.. you western people you always know to point at others.. first see yourself…if you are in bahamas on a beach in a bkini… guys will check you out… now when you cme down to India and you go to Goa just remember some thing. just because it was in the hands of portuguese doesnt means its portugal. It’s in India…; And the indian culture worships the female as a devi(godess) but none of our devis are naked,, or kind of what you wear today, you people come down in extra short clothes as if you dont have the money to buy it. and yell at people that they were looking at you with screwing eyes…
somebody has quoted that bikini was invented in some decade before. may be it’s true. but for our country the bikini is way too vulgar for 80% of the people…So the fact is that you should either wear proper ethnic clothes or should be happy if someone admires your hot body in the hot sun..
Now something about topless females.. i have visited to Goa and when i was entering the beach i saw a plankard where it was written ” TOPLESS SUNBATHING IS BANNED”.. if you are sound enough with your knowledge you can read those words, Still i found a lot of girls.. or womens whattever.. topless..” DO you want to turn an indian beach to a nude beach ”
I am a man i am made up of nature and there is no man in this world who can’t have a H**d ON..on Seeing such exposure.. if am false then the man who says this is not a man, So this is not an opposing on your thinking. goa is a tourist place and specially man travel from all parts of the country to this place just for seeing the sexy bikini bash which you all westerners bring into our country… please stay advised that even if you kiss in front of people in india you are doing a vulgar act if you are not in metro cities like delhi mumbai etc etc.. so guys and their girls. be happy and safe. india has a big history to be explored.. i like the westerners who come here and wear a traditional saree and you know what they look beautiful in that… there is a telling in hindi” jaisa desh waisa vesh” which means… you shud dress up as the place you are..
enjoy and have lots of fun . sorry if i hurt any bdys; feelings…
April 10th, 2010 at 10:14 am
I have a few experiences to share from my time in Goa.
I spent a week in Agonda because I thought the beaches were peaceful. Big mistake! When you’re alone at noon on the 3km beach, and suddenly a disturbed man walks out of the bushes, you wish you were in a crowded place so you could call for help. I was swimming and sunbathing so I was wearing a bikini, and I didn’t see anyone until this guy shows up from thin air. He had a crazy look in his eyes, he kept asking me where my boyfriend is, why was I there alone, and told me he KNEW I wanted only to have sex! He was getting more and more aggressive and started to take off his shirt.
Thank god I had my bag with me. I took out my knife that I carried just in case (because I had been warned about Indian men before I arrived in the country). It saved my life.
He was in his thirties, had bad skin, and his vision wasn’t straight. He was wearing a burgundy silk shirt with buttons.
Another, not as serious experience happened also on Agonda beach. This happened ironically right behind their beloved white catholic church. A local guy was standing on the edge of the beach staring at me with his pants pulled down and, yeah, guess what he was doing. I didn’t know if I should laugh or cry.
Also, beware of the kashmiris in Palolem – they hunt western girls in hope of sex and money.
India, especially Goa, is my worst experience so far from all the countries I’ve visited – because of the sexually disturbed men.
So girls, please think twice before leaving for Goa!
April 11th, 2010 at 12:00 am
goa has already been destroyed by all the non-goans,mining industries,corruptions,garbage and many many many more problems.
we have only 10 % of goa left.
April 11th, 2010 at 12:58 am
I think clothing is not at all d problem as women from across age groups, be it three-month-old babies or 90-year-olds have been raped. They have been raped in saris, burkhas, salwar kameez, school uniforms, bikinis, jeans, skirts, shirts, lungis. Women have been molested, assaulted, raped at all times of the day, and in public places.I can’t believe that they can blame a nine-year old girl for being ‘too sexy’. I mean, it is horrible enough to blame a women for ‘asking for it’ by dress, which is already totally bull-crap, but to blame a nine-year-old girl?
Wearing a bikini on a beach is supposed to be a beach wear, one cannot wear a bikini and go for a party or a wedding, bikinis are designed to be worn on a beach.
In Geography half of India has a long peninsula, but sadly not much Indian domestic tourists understand the dress code on beach especially while venturing out into the sea, and as a result of which one finds Indian women venturing out into the water with Sarees or even churidars and the men in long trousers.
Every country around the globe that has a beach to boost have women tourists wearing a bikini and I see nothing wrong in women wearing bikinis on the Goan beaches atleast they are not nude.Many of the beaches around Goa have notices been erected with messages asking tourists not to move around without clothes but it also has led to the strange phenomenon of “beach staringâ€. Many a times one would observe domestic tourists arriving in buses only to watch bikini clad women and our desi tourists certainly cherish photographs with these bikini clad women.Goa as a tourists destination receive wide spread coverage off late for the wrong reasons rapes, murders and assault on foreign women, the negative publicity that Goa has been receiving began mainly after the alleged rape and murder of British teenager Scarlett keeling and there after every case pertaining to foreigners have been well reported by the media print and television.
and all these things are only due to because of d proud indian perverts.I many a times feels soooo much embarased to see such an level of pervaisim in beaches. as you can also see an indian man coming to the beaches in goa for holidays and when he sees an bikini gal he just cant even control his senses and starts staring at her body by this time he doesnt even realises that his children,wife or any of d family members r walking next to him..is this what indian culture teaches?? these indian ppl dont care bout any thing as they come here,enjoys there pervertness and goes back.but we the goans r the sufferers as it ruins our dignity.it affects our state income,AS tourism is still d one of d major source of income for goa.if the foreign tourists stops coming then it will be an big hit to the state income.
WHY WE THE INDIANS DOESNT GROWS UP. ITZ AN REAL SHAME TO US.IAM REALLY MUCH EMBARRASED TO SEE ALL THESE THINGS HAPPENING,AS DIGNITY AND RESPECT ARE OUR REAL ACHIEVEMENTS & REAL TREASURE.SO PLS STOP ALL THIS NUISANCE.
-AN PROUD GOAN AND AN VERY PROUD INDIAN.
April 11th, 2010 at 10:51 am
Akshay, that is the most accurate and objective read about that ‘bikini at the beach’ issue I have read in a long while. And I couldn’t agree more. The newspapers are full of those rape and molestation cases and some other comments mirror a similar picture. So it can’t all be blamed to the women, like you said. Also Goa is currently still advertised in other parts of India as the ‘free sex for all’ state with the obvious undesired effects that come with it.
And yes, it is probably more a thing of education and progress that Indians and other nationalities have to face and go through. I’m sure, that it is only a temporary nuisance and with India’s march into the 21st century will eventually be overcome.
April 11th, 2010 at 11:29 am
Men staring at you openly on the street, making comments, or even groping you in public places happens often enough to warrant alarm. Spying on females in hotel rooms also can happen, as can unwelcome propositions.
This type of “pervert” behaviour happens often in India and female foreigners need to be really careful. Indian men seem to not even respect foreign women traveling with a male partner, shockingly enough. If you travel alone as a foreign woman it can be hellish.Many Indian men watch porn of white women and think they are all sluts, and will have no problem to casually sleep with them. Even the educated ones think like this. I tried to rationalise with them, but it doesn’t work. They are ignorant pigs.
India is a democracy but not capitalist. More socialist and even communist. No one in India believes the western concept of ‘equality’ Goes directly against the caste system.
They know, correctly, that the type western female that travels India solo is probably not a virgin. In fact many western girls have had many many boyfriend by the time they are 21. It’s not surprising that they’re treat often disrespectfully. Also, given the many western women that come looking for male company does not help.f you think that by looking at blue images or porn movies etc india is turning pervert type of country than I think you are wrong. Kamasutra was the creation of ancient India. People were having these desire from the time of lord Rama. You’ll find many examples in history of India. those who had power used it and satisfied their needs and those who didn’t they kept low and did it secretly. Earlier there were no cameras, internet so we created these images in so called love temples with different exotic MUDRA’S. Earlier people were abused but no one knew now media is there these news get attention very quickly. I think this is a very long topic and I may need to write a novel on this to explain. In Short people are not hiding their needs their wishes so you feels they are pervert.Most of the culprits are either college students(hmm how did they reach college) and other times some cab drivers or trusted mates……..I think (and beg your discretion) actually normal Indian male( educated as well as uneducated)…is brainwashed by the hollywood films(and more from blue films)…they think foreigners especially women are of loose character(i don’t personally)…and moreover its not in India ..in foreign too such things happen…i read a report that hardly any rape cases are registered in America…One more thing that u should keep in mind ……..you will see most of the foreigners who come to India especially to Goa or himachal are drug addicts……although this does not justify the action(rape(crime) can never be justified)…they are taken advantage of…..I think personally ……that blue films have deteriorated the persona of foreign women in our country…their extrovert nature …their friendliness ….is mistaken.Perverts are everywhere….Even foreign perverts come to india…..
April 11th, 2010 at 11:38 am
Im an extract from 1 of my articles from the goan newspaper “The observer”
On the narrow lanes that lead towards the Anjuna flea market,
impromptu convoys of motorbikes and scooters weave around the
ubiquitous cows and bump over the potholes, heading in the direction
of the beach.
Their riders are an odd mix: the hippies, semi-naked with their
intricate tattoos and wraparound shades, straddling old Enfield
Bullets, studiously ignoring the fat, pink, middle-aged package
tourists clinging nervously to their scooter handlebars and wishing
they were sipping their first cool Kingfisher beer of the day. These
men, too, have discarded their shirts, preferring to expose their
beer bellies to the sun; the women favour strappy vest tops and
shorts that ruck up around the thighs. If they notice the cold stares
they receive from some of the local people who move among them, it
does not show.
The sun is bakingly hot, sitting high in the deep blue sky above the
gently waving coconut palms, the light glinting off the waves rolling
gently on to the sand. This is the Goa most people know: the relaxed,
freewheeling, former Portuguese colony which opens its arms to
visitors of all kinds and so appealed to the hippies who flocked here
in the late 1960s that some have never left.
Yet something poisonous has entered Eden. Beneath the surface lies a
seething mass of tensions and hatreds. A spate of high-profile
attacks on western tourists, including the murder of British teenager
Scarlett Keeling, is the most obvious symptom of the malaise. A
state-sponsored land grab of expatriates’ properties, the influx of
Russian and Indian property developers, and even a threat to ban the
wearing of bikinis has convinced many long-term stayers that the time
to leave has come.
Many are alarmed by the failure to get to grips with the crime
problem. It was on Anjuna beach that 15-year-old Scarlett’s body was
found two years ago. She had been battered and raped after an evening
drinking and taking drugs while her mother, Fiona MacKeown, was
travelling elsewhere in India. Yet it was MacKeown’s vehement
protests that led the police to revise their initial conclusion that
the teenager had drowned accidentally.
In a week’s time, a court in the state capital, Panaji, will start to
hear evidence against two men accused of her killing. Not her murder,
though, a point that rankles with some European residents who think
that the authorities disapproved of her family’s unconventional
lifestyle. They point to the murder charges brought against a Russian
last month after a local man died in a late-night brawl in Morjim and
ask whether there is one law for Indians and another for those from abroad.
Even the state’s tourism minister, Francisco “Mickky” Pacheco, has
admitted that the lax police response to attacks on foreigners is in
danger of earning Goa the title of the “rape capital of India”. The
jailing last week of a waiter at a beach bar for the murder of a
former social worker, Denise Higgins, in April 2007 goes some way to
explain why even the most law-abiding foreigners are afraid. Higgins,
52, from Oxfordshire, was stabbed in her own home after befriending
the man and his family.
One British expat pensioner is so scared she says she now sleeps with
a knife in her bed in case of attack. The underlying tensions bubble
to the surface in the letters pages of the local papers and the
internet forums of the expats, which teem with bitter accusations of
racism, colonial arrogance and local mendacity. A letter to the
Herald newspaper last month was typical. Foreigners were opening
businesses and taking away the livelihood of the locals, the writer
complained, before explaining that foreigners also “gift us various
diseases like Aids, among other strange viruses and influenzas due to
mutation and mixing of blood”.
On the popular British Expats Discussion Forum, Darren (a former
resident of Goa who decamped to Vietnam) describes it as a “corrupt,
unlawful and dangerous” place populated by lazy and thuggish young
people who are distorted by “jealousy, greed and selfishness”. This
prompts another expat to dismiss the place as a “dirty shithole”.
Once Goa was in Indian hands, it was not long before the first
hippies arrived, heading first for the area around Anjuna and Vagator
beaches, which became famous for its beach parties and drug culture.
The state remained a hippie haven for much of the 70s. In the early
80s, it was all New Age, to be replaced as the decade wore on by the
growth in electronic music which eventually moved into the trance
scene, with full-moon parties on beaches and at other open-air
venues, a trend that continued into the 90s, despite an initial
police clampdown. But mass tourism had also discovered Goa. While a
range of five-star hotels sprang up in the south, the north welcomed
cheap package tourism.
So how did things get so bad? In 2006, there was a sudden influx of
Russian and Indian developers from Delhi and Mumbai. Large tracts of
land originally designated for agriculture were converted to
residential use amid accusations of corruption up to ministerial
level. As prices rose, local people suddenly found they were being
priced out of the market. It was also clear that such large-scale
development would place additional strain on already limited
resources such as water and electricity. The following year, the
state assembly elections were fought against a backdrop of a campaign
to save Goa from the newcomers.
Caught in the backlash were thousands of foreigners who had sunk
their life savings into homes there. To their horror, the goalposts
were moved and many properties had their residential use revoked.
Some of those caught by the switch had undoubtedly made use of
loopholes in the law, but hundreds of others who were sure they had
done everything above board were also caught in the net. Worse still,
under the 1999 foreign exchange management act they should not have
bought the land either, and the offence they have now retrospectively
committed carries with it a fine of three times the value of the land
and the possibility of confiscation.
Others found that the rules on other documentation had changed, as
had the way residency was defined. The government wasted little time
in moving against them.
Nick Papa, 47, and Mick Cooper, 65, received their warning notices on
14 December 2008. They arrived 10 years ago after falling for Goa on
holiday and sank their life savings into setting up home. They
thought they had found heaven when they bought their elegantly
presented house on a hillside in the village of Aldona in north Goa,
paying three million rupees (£44,500) for it and spending more than
half as much again doing it up.
Now, like so many others, they are determined to leave. Though the
couple, from south Croydon, insist they stuck by the rules and have
the paperwork to prove it, their nightmare is that, without
government approval, they cannot sell. Even if they can find someone
prepared to take their property off their hands for a reduced sum,
they are barred from taking the money out of the country. The British
high commission has taken up the issue with the Indian government,
but warns that it cannot interfere in the legal process.
“It’s a racist attack,” said Cooper. “They are going to kill people
with the stress. I know one woman who has tried to slit her wrists
three times. Why has the government got this hatred for foreigners?”
Papa joined in: “It all goes back to 2006 and the publicity about
foreigners buying up property which inflamed feelings and made the
locals think that inflation was because of the western influence.”
“Now you get called a white bastard and white trash,” said Cooper.
“When we moved here it was like living in paradise. Now we are being
held hostage. We want to sell up and go home. It’s not a safe place
to be any more.”
Vikram Varma, the lawyer representing many of the British owners,
says part of the problem lies in a conservative mindset among some of
the local population. “You have a set of people who are warm and
friendly towards foreign nationals, with open minds and contemporary
thinking. But you also have a certain set of people who are against
change of any sort,” he said.
To compound the expats’ misery, India has changed the rules on
tourist visas, curtailing the length of stay and imposing a two-month
ban on returning to the country. Once British tourists might stay six
months, fly to Colombo and return with a new six-month visa, but now
they are shut out. Though this change is under review, it spells the
end for many who took advantage of the situation to make India their home.
Varma thinks the government has its priorities wrong: “We have nearly
half a million Bangladeshis coming in illegally to India. They enter
without documents and are a major drain on the economy. We have far
fewer western tourists coming to Goa, and they come with intellectual
and financial capital. They are an asset. The charm of Goa is its
international visitors. It is what makes Goa different from the rest of India.”
Goa, with its little white churches and elegant casas set among
beautifully tended gardens, has always been a little different from
the rest of India, more cosmopolitan, with a more open outlook. The
Portuguese were here for 450 years and it was still a colony long
after the British left, until December 1961 when 30,000 Indian troops
overwhelmed the 3,000 Portuguese defenders. The fighting was over in
48 hours. But rather than liberation, many older Goans regarded it as
annexation by a foreign power. Some now feel that, as people move in
from poorer states to fill the menial jobs Goans will not perform,
the character of the state is changing.
One elderly Indian in a village near Anjuna sums it up in words that
have uncomfortable historical echoes. “The problem is the blacks [the
non-Goan Indians]. Look,” she said, pointing at a plastic bottle
tossed into her beautiful garden from the street, “that’s what they
do, they are dirty people.”
As tensions rise, the tourist industry, so crucial to the state, is
suffering. About 2.4 million tourists visit every year, including an
estimated 200,000 Britons, and it is the British about 3,300 of
them who make up the majority of the 5,000 foreign residents. But
though Indian tourist numbers are rising, foreign visitors are down
for the second consecutive year.
Lyndon Monteiro, vice-chairman of Goa’s tourism development
corporation, has the tough job of trying to reverse the decline. He
said the state had no choice but to implement national laws, but
insisted that everyone was welcome in Goa, irrespective of where they
come from. But he added that visitors must try harder to fit in.
“They must also respect the local culture, the law of the land and
the people’s sentiments,” he said. “Definitely, we would advise our
honoured guests to dress modestly. It is very bad manners for a man
to go shirtless in a supermarket or for a woman to wear a bikini.”
While the British fight on, the authorities have claimed their first
victims, fining a Swiss couple 200,000 rupees (£3,000) and issuing
them with a confiscation order. Sitting on the veranda of their small
guest-house in the heart of Anjuna, August and Ruth Thommen shake
their heads at the injustice of it all. August is 69, Ruth 10 years
younger but suffering from suspected bone cancer. They look worn out
by the strain. August apologised that he had to leave: he had to go
to the bank to withdraw the draft to pay the fine.
They bought the place 15 years ago after falling in love with Goa as
holidaymakers. Now they, too, want to get out. “This is just
robbery,” said Ruth. “I think the government would like to kill us
like in a war. This is our heart, our life. We never thought we would
go back to Switzerland, we would die here, but now it is finished.”
She lit a cigarette and drew on it hard, reflecting on the visitors
she had seen over the years. “I saw Scarlett the morning before she
died and she was completely stoned,” she said. “Everyone knew her
here. She was a beautiful girl, but her problem was drugs and
alcohol. I can’t understand how the mother can leave her like that.”
She took another drag on the cigarette, and shook her head: “When we
arrived the people were more friendly, now it is all money, money,
money, and cheating and lying.”
April 14th, 2010 at 1:49 pm
Ive not seen one more reason for perverts in Goa…… That is Goan Girls are going too fast to the western Cultures….. if u never noticed then visit Arambol beach. ull find goan girls or guys too dating with foreign or north Indian tourists.
I was shoked going ther with one of my freind. theire was nothing like India it is like Heaven for that type of people…………….
May 18th, 2010 at 9:35 pm
Hi
Interesting stuff, from pictures, to western women are not safe in India. I have lived here for 2 years, also have visited Goa, “LOVE GOA”. I am safe because I surround myself with great friends, and do not go to unsafe area’s or put myself in any unwanted situation. Do I go on buses, no, I have heard the men will grab anything that seems like a women’s ass or body part. (again not sure because I do not go)
Now Goa, my sister and I had a great time tanning on the beach, and yup caught a few men taking pictures. I did confront them, along with them saying I delete, that was not enough for these men, the locals went crazy on them, hitting kicking, throwing the camera away. I was shocked, thinking wow, then an elderly man came up holding a huge stick shaking it at the running men, with a wet camera. Not all Indian men are the same, the way the locals acted was nice, so they also do not tolerate the perverted picture takers in Goa.
I am going back as always love that place, and it will be the 6th time so far!
Chill, and lets not trash all, I find the men usually pretty darn good at being very protective of women, Indian and Western.
April
May 19th, 2010 at 10:43 am
Good to read about your experiences, April and Aijaz! Of course, things are changing in India and not everything is bad. People adapt new lifestyles, some good, some not so desirable. Things are also sometimes in the eye of the beholder, although bad behavior is usually internationally perceived as bad. I agree, we should probably chill more and not generalize and trash all. =D>
May 19th, 2010 at 6:38 pm
why so hue and cry about indian men, bikini, and nudity. i am an indian and nudist but not a pervert,not all indian males are pervert and not all perverts are indian males.if a bunch of jokers posing threats for you guys, u need to be little more alert. try some secluded beaches for the more authentic nudist extravegenza.
September 1st, 2010 at 11:44 pm
We do not see naked girl from childhood and private parts are treated as sex object and stimulator ,so people are very crazy and desperate about seeing private parts and taking pic. if rules are changed here and people are use to with these kinds of activity then every thing will improve. Indian girls also wants to wear bikini and other erotic dress, but due to such people they are not able to wear.Indian couples also wants to enjoy nature but due to such atmosphere where being naked is treated as bad or shameful act they do not do. First of all culture should be uplifted,training should be given in school and by parents that breasts and other private parts are same like other parts of body. strict policies should be made against eve teaser.Every indian should not be blamed for this, india is a big country and is mixed community.Some people are very good, helpful and some …as u know, so cheer up …felt very sorry for you as i cud have helped you.
September 24th, 2010 at 6:19 pm
namaste! first of all i feel extremely sorry for what ever that happened to ur girlfriend its shame on india as a whole but being a woman and a hindu i d like to say and assert& completely agree with mr.kunal that why indians are ill treated always by westeners! many times in bangalore where i reside i have this experience myself being oogled or somewhat pass on kinds by foreign males even though i m regular salwar kameez fully covered kind of brahmin girl. please respect indian tradition, religion, and moral values. as Mr.kunal said be a roman in rome! I really appreciate those foreign men and women who wear indian ethnic dresses and are more interested in learning indian great culture, yoga, dances, medicines etc even in brigade and MGroad in bangalore where indian women specially north indian women flaunt their bodies which according to me something nasty and vulgar, cheap western imitation. if at all foreigners want to be in bikini or more fast going topless or noods there are so many countries cities like los vegas they can visit who bothers them may be we indians are too broad minded that we accept the whole world and westeners and thier meaning less and racist comments! please dare to visit other neighbouring countries whose tradition and culture are said to be still more rigid and conservative but Mr.chris whether christianity, islamic or my own hinduism victims and tradition keepers are women only. for ur kind information if u unknowingly log on to the website like services in bangalore its shock to see 100’s of foreign women posing in nude offering services to men in bangalore. and thanks to hindi cinema world where foreign women always wearing bikini dancing in vulgar manner to the hindi tunes probably this is giving nasty ideas even to school kids going for nasty perverted things like this.few decent men mind u i am commenting on only MEN not considering their damn religion or country or race i care too hood for that and salute to all decent guys of this world who are loyal to their beloved partners or wives have a good day sir and take care my regards to ur girl
September 27th, 2010 at 3:08 pm
Hi
First off manju,I am slightly offended by your generic over view of foreigners, as the same goes for Indian men with other replies.
I have lived in India for close to 3 years now, the commercials on tv *Indian* are way more suggestive then any I see in Canada, so lets get over the moral statement for India ok?
I surround myself with many great friends Indians, and do not go places were I put myself at risk or it could causes a situation. Once someone slapped my butt in a club, the Indian men that were with me, actually caused such a scene the person was thrown out. My response was, hey at my age perhaps my butt does look pretty good *I was wearing Jeans*.
Now for Goa, yes I have been there, yes, they took pictures, however the locals were the ones that went wild on these snapping crazed young men, hitting, chasing then and throwing their phone into the sea.
My daughter will be coming and yes I will take her to Goa, and honestly anyone I find taking pictures, with their phone/camera will find it tossed into the water—->The I delete, I delete statement will be to late.
Anywhere, any country, any city has it’s ups and downs, it is how you handle yourself that is the key.
The simple solution for me, is toss the camera/phone into the water, I am sure next time those young men will think twice.
You see, Sorry will be to late for me, in fact they can keep their sorry’s for another day or someone else.
In other words, chill, stop pointing the fingers and just relax. Easier said then done hu? Well the other solution is just do not go there.
It does suck, it is uncalled for, but it is a fact of life, our culture “foreigners†differ from local traditional ones, lets just be slightly understanding, but not push over’s.
Have a great day, and do not sweat over the small stuff, cause the big stuff will kill you:)
Avril
October 2nd, 2010 at 10:08 am
I’m hurt reading what Chris experienced and I am angry that he had to face such circumstances in India! Shameful! I express my regret to you and your lady for what you folks faced as it’s my country and you are MY guests here!
I’d type today what many Indians would call being ‘unpatriotic’ and i might receive the flak for being so open, crude and truthful about it! Sorry Guys that’s how I am.. India holds tonnes of mysteries in itself and amongst the oldest of civilisations… I don’t think a billion true words from me about its bad sides would cut the infinite goodness and richness it holds!
I’ll just start typing here about bits of what i know 110%-
The Fairer and striking featured women better beware in India. Example-
New Delhi has the West punjabi, Pashtu, sindhi, balochi populations (came poor, looted by muslims & worked hard to make riches) of Hindus & Sikhs that migrated from Pakistan during the partition and they look opposite of what majority of Indians do as these people are generally fair, tall, healthy and more Iranian, Afghan in features. Delhi also houses eastern UP and Bihar populations(generally lower middle class and poor) that is the general dusky, dark, brown to black(rare) and you can see the drama unfold!! The Punjabi girls are generally from rich to very rich families and can be seen zooming in Lancers and Prados whereas the bihari labour class and UP Government servants cant dream of it.. The worst happens when the UP politicians better known as Ace Criminal Gangsters pop their eyes looking at these girls they dont find back in their states & sometimes make the wrong news of eve teasing and get beaten up by the burly Punjabi men. Now Opulence & western lifestyle(half of my class of Punjabis in my early Delhi school was born in Canada, UK and US) has Punjabi girls(physically almost of same proportions as white girls) in the best of tight fitting jeans and their Atkins diet figures has these lesser fortunate folks gasping for more. Now general ‘north west’ calls most of the dusky India as ‘darkies’ and their girls don’t care to give a glance to the darker Indians. (Down in South India, the Fascination for Northern Indian Girls is such dramatic that every movie of theirs has a northern indian girl and every mother wants a ‘northern indian fair skinned bride’!!!)
This is the class Divide in New Delhi, the national capital and also the place where we have the largest cases of violence against women reported!! We also have scores of Russian Prostitutes landing for Big Bucks in cheap to 5 star hotels.. Get the drift? lolol… Even amongst the Punjabi folks, the family expects the girls to be Virgins but to my knowledge a good 40% below 22 aren’t!! Where is the Data? Kiss my a** for I lived my life in it and I know half the population of who did when and what and let me tell you they are no different in deeds than the after PROM business in US!
The nation is changing and the cities are more so… But the class divide between rich and poor is increasing and more of the Rural population migrating to cities makes it a very complex affair.. You’d find Open marriages amongst couples where dices thrown on table decide who’d sleep with whom on weekends for a change in the rich farmhouse retreats and on the other side a drunk factory labour beating his wife for looking at a man passing by for a fraction of a second.. Now how bad its going to be or how improved cant be said! Educated class is less likely to indulge in eve teasing but a hungry male chained by traditional values won’t stop at anything when considering a chance, this holds true everywhere! I think Indians should grow up to accept their Kamasutra past & stop behaving like Arabs as ancient India wasnt what it is today.. Even our Hindu texts are speculated by historians to be more Islamicised(conservative & taboo loving) with recent changes in centuries to show virtues of chastity & God knows what all crap like for example an ‘Ideal’ woman sacrifices her dream or anything for her Man!!! Yes, they don’t pass their schools & come from remote villages but run on roads breaking public property trying explaining to the educated class and historians how we should see history! lolol.! To round it in simpler words, its a predominant Alpha male society & patriarchs have been a norm for more than a millenium.
A lot is changing now but the smell of it is pretty much fresh in the air.. I was at this HSBC international business building that houses call centres in south and a group of Anglo-Indian Christian boys(employees) who were almost pale skinned had problems with their female counterparts smoking and driving bikes(not mopeds but those sports bikes)!! So its deeper than I myself thought it was! In Delhi, girls driving in broad daylight report being harassed by dirty old men who start driving rash so as to prove that the girl can’t handle their cars… Inferiority complex, primitive tendencies, medieval era crosses modern age?!?!
These are just excerpts from the ground reality that is how it is and I will not stand with posters trying to defend the reality! If australia has a good number of racists and Iran’s President Ahmedinejad is a Dick then all of this is true about my country too! Ofcourse, I wouldn’t deny the good part of my country as i woudn’t hide the bad parts of it but here I would agree to two points- 1) Indian Men have a majoirty of hypocrates and they are denied natural female interaction by the religious & cultural stigma that has been influenced by the Brahmin hegemony and Islamic invasions)! And trust me most of the fools dont have the aptitude to figue it out!
2) Any foreign woman/Indian woman who isn’t careful in India is inviting trouble!!!! Fighting over this ‘not being fair’ won’t help as I DON’T WANT YOU GIRLS/WOMEN/FEMALES/LADIES being ill treated no matter where you are in this world!! And its better to be careful than be sorry!
I am from the north west and have greek, persian looks+skin tone and people stare at me like I’m some museum artifact walking on the road!! Imagine if I was a girl, i would have reported 4-5 major cases of eve teasing easily from just the past 2 months! I would especially mention that when I was in south india for an year writing my 10th standard exams, a decade ago, 4 girls sitting behind my bench were throwing erasers, paper balls at me as they found me fascinating & fair skinned! :-/ And you thought adam teasing never happens?
I wanted to write an article about do’s and don’ts in India especially for the ladies as its since teenage that I have read several cases of foreign girls getting molested and raped! And yes ladies, many of the cases were pretty stupid involving ignorant tourists who most likely knew nothing about India! I’ll mention a few-
* Less than an year ago- The state of Bihar is a lawless poor land of impoverished population that supplies labour to the majority of the country! (Im being very crudely true and bare factual!!!!!) This state houses probably the most corrupt politicians and gangsters in this country apart from the state of UP. And in this part of the nation where any educated and well aware Indian girl from another state would cringe travelling alone… A white girl did it! She was a student of history and came to bihar to study the extremely rich Buddhist history of the state. She travelled through a remote Rural area in a BUS, Alone, and a police constable Raped her IN THE running BUS amongst passengers! Don’t be shocked as police is as good as a right hand of politicians in Bihar! Corrupt to the hilt!
* 6 years ago- In New Delhi, a mother daughter duo from the US tasted eve-teasing. The teen girl wore a mini skirt that revealed her panties and butt while she walked and the mommy wore shorts that finished 4 inches below the crotch! They were at the ‘ModerN’ Connaught Place shopping area built during the British era and well known for its architecture and rich shopping experience. For the 2 kilometer stretch that they walked, they got teased 15 times, almost molested and were finally arrested by the Police for their indecent attire!
* After the once-in-a-decade communal riot in one of the cities was over, a nice white couple made an interesting tour to the OLD City! Now this was after 9/11, bin Laden, recent Afghan and Iraq Invasion by the US and the muslim community as it is around the world, wherever they are, were angry with the US! Now imagine the stupidity!! These 2 idiots walked straight into the Old City(In INDIA most of the ‘Older parT’ of big cities has predominant Muslim communities just like Southern parts used to be predominantly ‘Coloured’ areas in US cities during the 60’s and maybe even now) for taking pictures of historic buildings, shopping and ‘Surfing the INTERNET’!! This is 2 days after the riots! As there are peaceful and working class muslims who want to get on with their regular lives, there are also extremists who call bin Laden their Godfather and Jehad as a way of life! This couple got an earful of religious, cultural insults at the cyber cafe(the uneducated lot think all white is american and against Islam), the girl was molested and spit upon, the couple travelled 600 meters humiliated until a muslim religious head intervened and called the police.
* God knows how many of these cases actually happen and how and why girls behave so irresponsibly and stupid! I am F***ing TIRED of reading these reports again and again and again! Pushkar Fare in Rajasthan and the town of MALANA in Himachal pradesh are thronged by tourists for ‘easy NARCOTICS AND DRUGS’! Girls have travelled in midnight, alone or numbering 2-3 with shady indian fellows or ‘college boys out-for-fun’ and ended up being brutally raped in some third class hotel rooms or private farm houses for 3 days or so. The girls have had their drinks spiked or they tripped after taking drugs in broad dayilight and they got exploited when under influence of drugs and offguard! Seriously! You think this is smart? The last well known case was that of a Japanese girl!
I’m not saying that you’d not face lecherous bas****s if you’re not in any of the above conditions as cases are abound that women got raped even when they were fully clothed!
The Point is that remember its a sexually repressed culture and a developing nation! They have a colonial past and are seriously ignorant to the Western Culture and as some folks above me pointed out, consider white, foreign women as easy going!
And people don’t and I repeat don’t FLASH your expensive gadgets, cash, credit cards and stuff in Public that’d have people eyeing you! And be vary of strangers offering good deals or food or taking you in narrow lanes and deep inside areas with spider web like passages and narrow lanes you’ll never come out of even after 80 years of exploration!!!
DO YOUR HOMEWORK before you visit ANY foreign nation and be especially careful in conservative societies as more you chain the male species, the wilder Dogs they become! India is especially complicated as its very diverse… Its more like all the nations of Europe combined to make a country of!
In the north-west, jammu & kashmeer(I am a Hindu Rajput), where I come from, I am not stared at for being very fair and caucasoid and an average female is considered prettier than the best of girls elsewhere in the country.. people are fairer and better to look at.. But this also holds true that a little south in the northern parts, women are abused the most in the country! The southern part of india is predominantly darker in skin tone but they are more respectful towards women than any part of the nation(except north-east)! Kerala in south has over 90% literacy and educated population!
To be frank, I’d be happy if you’re safe and go back home with a big smile and i’d be sorrowed if something unfortunate happens with you…
love you all and God Bless!
November 30th, 2010 at 5:06 am
To all, what a lot of writing. don’t people have a full day job? just kidding. Am goan and would like to say just a few things.
a) plenty of india bashing which isn’t of much use. The message to females visiting is to be aware of the fact that you will be photographed if you look good. Not by the locals who hardly care but by regional indian tourists who know of goa as being a place where foreigners strip to catch a tan. The rest of india is like any othe conservative society. Trust me …..interior USA is more conservative than goa ! the message to guys with their girlfriends visiting goa…..try wearing a g-string…..the regional indian tourists will probably find yr butt more of an eye catcher than your girlfriends….its just ( as somebody said) the novelty factor…..so yr girlfriend will get a break and can snooze in peace.
b) whatever everyone seems to have experienced in goa or india in general is nothing but what you can expect to see anywhere else in the world. If you’re indian walking with your babe down a street in central europe….there is a craze for brown….you’ll get photographed without our permission…if your indian babe is showing a bit of flesh….she could get accosted by a camera man offering really good money to bare all on camera.Even more if the couple agrees to do an action piece together for the camera….thats why the porn industry thrives in central and western europe. If you’re an indian girl and visiting on your own in paris, don’t take a lift with a stranger else you might end up in a strange part of paris, getting doped without your knowledge and the next thing thats happening is that your sprawled out on a bed getting photographed for the internet porn sites. Face the facts of life.
c) nobody’s noticed the indian girls from the big cities like Delhi bombay, calcutta or bangalore who come to goa in female only groups and have a try at sitting on the beach in bikinis ( first time experiences) ……i’ve seen them get photographed without permission by white foreign tourists.
d) to country bash is not helpful to any tourist. Try visiting any arabian gulf country like uae, oman, saudi, qatar, kuwait. You’re safer on a beach in goa….believe me….ive lived 10 yrs in the gulf where you have plenty of white women working as singles in hotels, companies and the likes. they get photographed on the beaches by pakistanis, phillipino guys, afghans, indians, british larger louts, and virtually every nationality of male who does not abide by basic civic sense. Point is its not indians but any nationality of male who does not act civily. To make another point here……at Dubai mall some months ago a crappy british tourist entered the mall scantily dressed…was photographed by about 30 nationalities of men and women….when confronted by the guard…she stripped to her bikini and walked (to protest for her right to personal freedom)…..plenty of women snapping away at her butt to show their husbands at home…..NOVELTY.
e) in 2008, while visiting munich germany, i was walking by a river, and behold, i saw a bunch of sumptuous german girls stark nude trying to catch a tan. Strangely…..as the indian on the scene…..i did not instinctively grab my camera but just took in the sight and stored it in my Random Access Memory !!!…What was however truly interesting was that there was a german middle aged man with a camera and telescopic lens getting the girls on film. He was out of their sight. Perhaps they wud not care either …..that’s why they were nude in public anyway. Later that month i was on a river cruise down the Seine in Paris and whilst you pass the I’le de Cite there are some grassy stretches where people sunbathe…young and old alike and topless or fully nude. I remember seeing western tourists on the boat taking pictures of those sunbathers……without permission ….of course.
e) when in Goa…don’t even bother with the While in rome do as the romans do theory….just enjoy the sun, sand, local brew, music, breeze, fresh fish. Take basic precautions…make sure you watch your breezer or beer shandy being made in front of you to be sure you don’t get doped, if a bunch of indian tourists want a picture..just stick yr middle finger to them and they get the drift….that you dont want pictures taken…and above all keep in mind that they same ayurvedic masseurs who come by to give you a massage on teh beach are none other than a slightly more enterprising conservative indian male who decides that this is a wonderful way to get what you came for. He gets his hands on flesh….and the white female topless or bikini clad women gets her massage ( at times under the watchful eye of her husband!) Win Win for both. But whoever said you got an ayurvedic massage? Do you know anything about ayurveda to know the difference between ayurvedic massage and the random pressing with oil by an enterprising regional indian male tourist ? nobody complains about those touts but instead we rave about them and their massage skills when we’re catching up with the days happenings in teh local pub over dinner, right ?
Am Indian, Goan and widely travelled. I’ve not even bothered to comment on the kind of stuff that happens to single female tourists visiting thailand, korea or japan where men are equally and more conservative than indians. If they’re not with their wives….some of them turn into beasts and you can take a look at the way they grope the philipina or local waitresses butts. Life’s like that and crappy males will be crappy males. and dumb females will be dumb females and civic males and females will be civic males and females……regardless of which latitude or longitude you are located in.
December 2nd, 2010 at 11:35 pm
Nice additions and different viewpoints by Raj, manju, Avril, Western Chronicle and peter! With some time having passed meanwhile, I wouldn’t probably see it that strong anymore, then when I was writing down that article.
Other countries, other customs and if i don’t like what’s going on there, I can simply pack my bags and move on – which I did eventually.
Still, it’s not a sign of cultured civil behavior, so all mentioned countries with similar and common behavior patterns still have some way (and some obviously a veryyyyy long way) to go.
December 5th, 2010 at 10:37 pm
Women. If you are faced with this type of problem front the man out straight away and yell in a loud voice that he is a shameful disgusting man with non respect. most South Asians and middle eastern men find it very humiliating being fronted out by a woman because few Asian and middle eastern women every confrnt a man. the shame of this will be enough to have one of these revolting little perverts scurrying off. However , using this tactic when no one else is around may result in an attack by the man who feels his pathetic machismo under threat.
I work as an Immigration officer and when we get doubtful non genuine visitors from India or Pakistan we get a young female officer to question them. They hate it and normally loose there temper. Job done. On the next flight back home :))
December 6th, 2010 at 1:45 pm
Adam, do you think british men or american men or australian men or japanese men or chinese men, or african men or latin american men are any less possesive of their so called machismo ( as you call it ). Am surprised that you give away your work tactics considering somebody trusted you enough to employ you at an enforcement department in the uk or wherever you work as an immig officer. I do not understand your perverse dislike for indian or pakistan. Have you travelled to other countries to widen your outlook of the world. Suggest that is more appropriate so that you can be more logical in your advice to the fairer sex. I think they are in a better position to look after themselves as they come from Venus. We guys come from Mars and we think and act like buffoons at times. But not all guys and definitely nice men to be found all over teh world and thats why marriages take place and the worlds population increases steadily. Cheers
December 6th, 2010 at 5:28 pm
Hi Peter
You raise some interesting points here and I certainly don’t mean to offend anyone.
As far as Machismo goes, in my extensive travels throughout the world, I would say yes, Northern European men on the whole seem to display less machismo than men of other geographical areas. Though go round my local town on any saturday night and you will see the usual drunken idiots fightiong over some imagined insult to their egos :((
I certainly don’t dislike men from India or Pakistan. In my office the majority of my collegues parents came from the Indian sub continent or from teh African Asian diaspora. However its a proven fatc that in every flight from either Nigeria , India or Pakistan we will have a disproportionate amount of fruadulant entry visas or people coming here for illicit purposes. The tactic I quoet is not official policy , its just a way of testing attitrude. Someone who is genuine and a ‘nice ‘ person will not display anger or take affront to a female officer questioning them about the validity of their entry to the country.
Maybe I should of explained it better as I think my orginal post was somewhat brief and harsh.
Onto Goa , I’m now about to have a meeting with my mate whose from Goa to get some ‘inside info’ about the best palces to eat. Gotta go now.
December 6th, 2010 at 5:35 pm
Ola Adam, you might want to check out this article about my favorite restaurants in Goa, there are also plenty of tips from other readers in the comments. More about Indian food can be also found here. By all means – enjoy your trip there!
December 25th, 2010 at 2:00 pm
After reading all the posts, let me post an interesting link:
http://avinashsrao.blogspot.com/2007/01/my-last-trip-to-goa.html
Shows how Indians can be treated in their own country and how a white man is not all white!
December 25th, 2010 at 2:28 pm
Also read this and you will know what foreigners (not all of them of course) with local assistance are doing there.
http://indiatoday.intoday.in/site/StoryPrint?sId=118228&secid=30&page=null
December 25th, 2010 at 2:58 pm
Hi Indian, interesting links/stories and good proof, that crooks and jerks exist indeed independently from nationality, money or skin color. Hope you still could enjoy your Goa trip after all!
December 25th, 2010 at 4:16 pm
@ indian -the white skin that you mentioned in your blog is mostly likely to be an russian that guy might be the owner of that shack because 90% of the shack owners in candolim beach are russians. The locals manages the shacks on behalf of them. And as much as i know the russians in goa are very kind & friendly except a few.
this kind of nuisance mostly occurs with the domestic tourists of india. most of the tourists from other parts of india come here for staring at naked chicks & to make advances towards them. Because of which most of the foreign tourists never return back to goa resulting in decline of goan economy. if you guys have so much trouble with the foreigners and locals then why do you people come here again and again. iam pretty sure that you returned back here.
December 25th, 2010 at 9:42 pm
Let me clear the confusion, these are not my blog posts and I am not in Goa. I stumbled across Chris’ blog accidently and later was just curious to know what really is going on in Goa, as we wanted to visit the pristine beaches. So I found that blog link and the India Today (a popular current affairs magazine in India) cover story.
@smith as I have already said I have not visited Goa and those links are not mine.Moreover if I was so intertested in watching bare chics I have to just press a flew clicks instead of coming all the way to Goa. May be you are the one who indulges in it and keeps comimng back fo rmore.
@Chris The conclusions that I drew after reading all of this is that, one cannot just blame the ogling, staring, pervert non-Goan Indian for spoiling Goa’s atmosphere. There is the international mafia, drug lords, prostitution king pins, corrupt politicians and locals involved. Now if you have hundreds of Russian and other whores coming to Goa’s beaches and soliciting, then you can hardly blame someone who does not know the whole reality to perceive the foreign female as fair game, though I am in no way trying to justify the offence. I feel if beach patrol is effectively implemented and the Indian and local Goan govt. cracks down on drug lords and other illegal elements it can be a lot better.
December 25th, 2010 at 10:11 pm
Indian, that story shocked me . I think you have every right to feel outraged. i hate the thought of stupid visitors whatever their nationality disrespecting the host country they are in. I assure you that if me or my wife had witnessed that it would be the foriegner who would have got a punch and then we woudl sit on him untill the police arrived.
I would like to see all popular travel destinations rid of rip off merchants and rude ignornat visitors.
On a happier subject it is just 2 1/2 weeks toill we fly out to Goa. We are staying at Baga but I want to get away from teh package tourist areas. How far are the other nice beeches?
We woudl also like to fly to Amritsar to see teh temple and the border closinjg ceremony. Can you do both placdes in a day or are they far apart?
December 25th, 2010 at 10:42 pm
@Adam. I think it will be possible to do that as Wagah Border is near the city of Amritsar.
December 25th, 2010 at 11:03 pm
Thanks very much. I think I will pack alot in my trip and will have to go back many times to get everything done in India tha tI hope to do
December 30th, 2010 at 8:34 am
Goddam racist bullshit. I am an Indian and I am married to a German woman and live in Germany. My wife can tell you the most perverted men by far are Europeans, in particular older German men and British men. That is why she married me, this is all racist bullshit. People in Asian countries will stare at you because they never saw a Western person before and are fed ideas from the Western media so what did you expect? My wife finds this to be a bunch of racist bullshit.
January 2nd, 2011 at 9:59 am
I was hoping we would get through this subject without someone playing the race card. I would like to interject that Europeans tend to be more sexually liberated and this shouldnt be confused with perversion of exploitation. the concept of alternative sexuality, role play, BDSM etc doesn’t translate into non European cultures easily. I suppose the defining test would be, is a woman an equal participent in any sexual interaction or are they suffering the unwanted advances from men who can’t get sexual interactions from women of their own culture or society?
January 3rd, 2011 at 10:54 pm
I am not talking about sexual liberation, I am talking about drunk and perverted hooligans. Women are not exactly treated fairly in Europe either, there is a huge problem with human trafficking and women winding up as prostitutes in Western countries, especially in Europe. And European men are fueling it. The behavior of Westerners in Goa is despicable and is not tolerated in most countries. There is a lot of drug use and other illicit activities and that attracts the wrong kind of people.
January 4th, 2011 at 2:20 am
I’m with you exactly on that Rajiv. The behaviour of some youth in my local town is sickening. I am a magistrate in england and i see cases brought before me that make me sick. The law is so weak in the UK that it fails to offer a deterant against such behavoiur. I belive in India the police response is very hard to such behavoiur. i hate seeing drunk british people behaving like idiots in other countries and I would always have word with anyone I saw acting in an offensive way against local sensibilities.
January 4th, 2011 at 5:47 am
Goa has a poor reputation among Indians. And it is a place known for debauchery, hence perverts will abound in such place. Think about it, India is still a relatively conservative society, the sight of a scantilly clad or often unclad foreign woman in Goa is going to attract a lot of unwanted attention. You will see less of this behavior in other regions of India that are not known for debauchery. Most Indians like people in many countries get their views of Western females from mainstream TV and media, which gives a very skewed view of reality.
I spend most of my time in Germany, live near the Dutch German border, in Amsterdam, for example, attracts many perverts, mostly British and American youths who flock to the city for legal prostitution and drugs. A single female would be well advised to avoid the RLD area of Amsterdam late on a weekend evening.
Several years ago during the World Cup, things also got out of control. So this can happen anywhere. The combination of young people, debauchery, alcohol, and drugs will lead to trouble anywhere.
January 9th, 2011 at 1:38 am
Wait a second all foreigners……
Chris has every right to get angry.
But Chris, you cant blame on this on every Indian.
Not all indians are same.
We do respect Women a lot than any of you people.
Even in Goa (INDIA), if you make a mess over there, people would have held those guys.
But as you mentioned about bikini. In india, no women dont go around nude/ half nude on roads. So some buys may get eager to see girls in bikini as they dont have chance to see live normally.
January 14th, 2011 at 2:26 pm
For me all is said and done regarding that incident, but I’m happy, that the article is still receiving so much feedback. It shows that a topic so trivial is not yet seen in a common light around the globe. Means, we all have lessons to learn, maybe also to calm down and to look beyond the obvious.
January 16th, 2011 at 11:43 am
A very interesting and lively discussion.
Let me suggest that when you see an Indian girl in a bikini that you go and take pictures of her.
The thing is though, you wont. Because it is against the norm.
If you go against the norm of society, wherever you are in the world, expect a reaction that is foreign to you. After all, you are in their country, not your own.
February 6th, 2011 at 2:03 am
Really shocked to read this article, personally I feel that that Indian men are just not mature enough or human enough to respect others privacy. A vast majority of them are all self-righteous. Try and take a picture of their woman in such scenarios and you will see how they explode, but they have no qualms of doing it the other way around, there lies the hypocrisy.
February 7th, 2011 at 9:13 am
I’ve just returned from Goa and I must admit I found teh Goan women some of the most beautiful women in the world. i particularly fell in love with all teh Indian Army women at the airport. These women in Cammo just send me wild! However, I would not take a picture of any non western women in Goa as I feel I would (quite rightly) incur the wroth of their husbands or fathers. I woudl only ask that the similar courtesy be extend to me and my partner. I can perfectly understand men gawping a westen women in their bikinis or teh many inappropriately dressed Russian girls, but taking a picture close up is a bit out of odds from teh normal Goan politeness and good manners.
Am I being polite and well balanced in my findings?
February 8th, 2011 at 11:17 am
Adam, who are you trying to fool? ;;)
March 7th, 2011 at 2:58 am
@ Chris:
Well, for starters, I know I am a couple of years late in commenting here. But yeah, a touchy topic, and I have to admit I am thoroughly embarrassed by this, being an Indian male who has lived about 4 years in Goa.
I won’t deny that this is a case that a westerner, especially a woman, will come across more often than in, say, Europe, US or Australia. This is indeed sad. . I was at the receiving end of an angry outburst from an Israeli couple, because they thought I was indulging in the same kind of photography. I showed them my camera and alleviated their concerns, but I fully empathize with them. The only thing that I think is a little consoling is that things are moving towards the better, and if moving is overstating it, at least limping towards the better. The law enforcement has also become much more stricter. In any case, confronting such people immediately still seems to be the best solution.
March 15th, 2011 at 11:57 pm
hi folks just like yogi ..i am a little late too…just wanna put my 2 cents here..i am an indian and love goa just the way each of us does.as i was scrolling through the trail mail ..i couldn’t resist trying a place to hide my face..it is completely unacceptable invading privacy of people.this predominantly is due to the fact that our mindsets need to change.respecting people ,locals or visitors need to be understood or made understand by the authorities.Just for the records i was dating a russian and we were strolling on the beach and suddenly 3 locals came from no where ..i was drunk and so was she , it was dark at around 3.00 am and the dudes started mis behaving.i threw the first guy down , punched the second on his face and third one performed the dissapearing act .needless to say our moment was ruined.it took me a lot of time to pacify the babe.not many people do what i did..but trust me that’s the best thing to do..i checked with a few locals around and was told that all locals are supportive and very very seldom would someone try to harass you.I still believe India is beautiful country and it’s my country ..but even when i see locals trying to mess around with visitors or residents in goa or anywhere else in India ..i take them down and i will continue to do that …one at a time ..a cleaner india better india…cheers folks and enjoy your time in goa …it’s a still a heaven and will continue to be so…just don’t hesitate to ask for help ..majority of the locals are ready to help…
March 19th, 2011 at 1:07 pm
Hello Chris, you know, I spent 2 years chatting on Yahoo. I’ve seen these Indian guys fooling girls here in the Philippines. Lots of them just pop on your monitor and sending you messages? They ask for your cam and if you ignore them, they will say that they will give you money just to show your breast? For those naive girls, they would take the bait. And guess what, after they saw your breasts, they will never pay. They will promise you next day because Western union is close, or they say that they go to the hospital because someone is sick. They keep doing that. When you ignore them, they will persist and then buzz you. All Indian men are blocked on my messenger. The first time they send me message, they’re already blocked. They are perverts, sorry for those who are highly educated, I didn’t mean you. Maybe because their women are all covered up that’s why they’re hungry for sights of women on bikini. And they really are persistent that you get annoyed. But what the heck, I don’t care about them as long as they stay far away from me..
April 4th, 2011 at 12:45 am
i really now that it heppens in india.but i have gone to dubai its nice place.in out side of indian beaces there is nothing problem.
May 12th, 2011 at 4:49 am
I will definitely be telling my wife to cover up when we go there. What a shame, seems like a nice beach.
May 23rd, 2011 at 12:17 am
Hey Chirs,
I really think wat happened with ur gf was wrong n u did d rite thing, I was jus going through ur post n liked wat was being discussed initially.. but i lost interest as the same things n topics were discussed time n then..
I have been 2 goa with girls and if ur not wearing a bikini der is nothing 2 b worried about.. stick to d remote beaches if u anyways plan 2 do so.. Chirs.. der always will b such ppl everywer man.. India is a beautiful country, u find everything here.. Beaches, mountains n most profoundly peace.. plz visit india wen ever u want man.. We can blame d indian culture for such behavior but end of it.. d individual makes d difference, actually.. So Chris.. jus chillax.. have fun in India, make friends, visit places.. end of all dis ur gonna remember d joy u experienced traveling in India n not some pervert.. I love India.. I believe even u guys do, tats y u visit India in d 1st place.. So instead of working back n forth on the same points jus let it go n enjoy ur stay.. Cheers man..
May 23rd, 2011 at 4:44 am
This is getting on eof the longest running threads on the site. I came backfrom Goa in January. Beaches were fine and thgere was little problem except for the hawkers who are a pain in the arse.
Some of the dress of girls , especially russian girls , would really turn heads in a western town. I belive one must be a bit cultrally sensertive to local ways when off the beach and walking around like an Ibiza clubber does not go to earn respect from the locals
June 6th, 2011 at 2:03 am
Its to do with the caste system. As you do not follow caste rules on ‘purity’/chastity you are an outcaste and the caste system allows perversion and molestation of outcaste and independent women. Indians now travel to Thailand and molest women on the street there.
June 9th, 2011 at 7:09 pm
That not Indian mentality but the vulgar mentality brought by foreigners. Usually they have no culture and dignity and often act as pollutants in our system. Lest those guys must has been polluted by the incorrigible whores of the west. Here in India we worship girls nevertheless the values in our system is much more robust than the firingi juggernauts.
June 10th, 2011 at 3:43 pm
I cannot believe you just posted that…WOW is all I can say!
June 10th, 2011 at 11:55 pm
I tink he is having a laugh and posting tongue in cheek provocative stuff like i do , or at least i hope Jay is!
June 11th, 2011 at 6:35 pm
I repeat, it is to do with the caste laws on how to misbehave with outcaste women. Hinduism is primitive and any women not obeying caste laws is open to being treated as an object not under protection and open to attack. Even the educated Indian living in India thinks this way. Jay represents what people are thinking but not saying- all non-Hindus are polluted and molesting them is not going to be a sin. Sick mentality. Will not change if Hinduism does not change a lot.
June 13th, 2011 at 8:34 am
This is very sad Vijay. It would appear yet another example of how people use religion to justify their dominance over others. Hinduism, Sihkism, Islam, Christianity, there will always be people who use religion to justify their own agenda.
June 27th, 2011 at 2:51 am
Hey
The religion doesnot come into picture at all. Try to understand Goa is in India and those pollutants are also in India, and it is our responsibilty to get rid of those people, nevertheless the support of people harrased may be required. Our is the most recent and exhaustive law which is very clear on all aspects and law is same for all hindus, sikhs, muslims as all are indians. If there was any dominance that was present in india when ruled by Foreigners AND NOT IN THIS INDIA WHICH IS RULED BY ,FOR AND FROM INDIA. We are the only country which recognises all the human rights and that includes those on modesty.
June 27th, 2011 at 9:31 pm
I think to consider this problem with out looking into the social and cultural influence of religion wold be to miss a large part of the problem. Where by a strict religious pbservance can be morally very good , the misuse of religion , or using religion as an excuse has to be considered. I particularly liked Vijay’s example of how some men would use a corruption of Hinduism and the caste system to justify inappropriate treatment of women.
I work alot with India in my job and I realsie that human rights , while enshrined in the constituation , are woefully ignored in India. THis is no reflection on the wonderful people in India who showed me great kindness, but on a corrupt governmental and legal system.
July 1st, 2011 at 5:54 pm
No, I meant that Hinduism is the corruption. Hiduism is the caste system and caste laws that permit and even encourage hassling on outcaste women (that is, whites, East Asians, any women who does not follow caste rules.) If a women is not under protection and confinement of her father or husband, then she is fair game for harassment. What is Hinduism if not the caste system? Recently, in thailand i saw indian tourists do the ‘brushing up or grabbing as one walks along’ girl. No one else in the world does that and boasts to their friends about it.
July 9th, 2011 at 6:08 pm
See the whole picture is that no system which has worked for billions of years is corrupt but it is the people who make it may be corrupt. Hinduism never teaches any of that stuff but it is the people who never know anything about it corrupt it. The Solution is to fix up those people whether Hindu, Muslim, Jains, Sikhs, Christans or any other religion as all religions of this world respect woman.
Our Country is a very rich country unlike Thailand.
Thailand mainly depends upon…we know… for its economy. People are promoted to visit that country for prostitution and even the government itself supports it. But in our country it is banned and it is also for the people to realise the ill effects.
Adam is right that our system is corrupt but ours is a young country and we will see the changes in the next 15 years when the new generation takes over the country.
July 11th, 2011 at 6:20 am
Just as a linked subject to this, I saw a TV programme about girls being forced into prostituation in India last week. I was amused to see a riad on a brothel by the Inidan Police and a female officer slapping th emen using the brothel round the face as they were being thrown out. There is positive action to stop wmen being forced into the sex trade in India ans this is good to see.
July 25th, 2011 at 4:29 am
Hello Chris ,
Bad that what happened with your girl.They should be punished.The portrayal of white women in Bollywood , Lack of Main-Stream western Media , white-women in porn Movies are some of the factors resulting in this mentality of SOME Indian male.
Also there is a colonial hangover and effect of that resulting into a feeling of revenge which is against British with a false sense of thinking that every white is British.There are many factors and its difficult to determine what attribute what. ;;)
India is a land of contradiction.We gave the world KAMASUTRA and have become so protective of women’s body.But whenever we do get to see it uncovered , we want to get hold of it for full.
But Indians are not the only one to blame.Russians Mafia operating in Goa have done their bit to spoil the name of Goa.Now Israelis can also be found in illegal activities.Nudity is banned in India but still many western girls can be seen Topless in many beaches in India.You are tourist and should behave with in the law of land.
Don’t we say , Do what Romans do in Rome.!
So my request to foreigners is that Respect INDIA and Respect Yourself !
August 18th, 2011 at 2:30 am
I live in Goa was born in Mumbai but its been 16 years I am here in Goa. The most beautiful place with beautiful people I read the comments from all you guys its good you all notice how fucked up this country is some fucking people don’t have clue about what their actions lead to I always think i wish had a gun to fucking shoot them sorry if I am being rude very soon gonna leave this fucking country n run away
x(
October 8th, 2011 at 3:01 am
India sucks! hindus are a perverted dirty lot who are out to wage war against the West and Christianity (both of which they associate as inseparably tied together). the West is only now starting to understand the anti-Christian attitude of Hinduism. These people are an insecure load of ****. The local Goans, whether they be Christian, Muslim or Hindu were chilled out people as far as I could tell.
It’s the Patels, shahs and such trash who mess up Goa.
October 9th, 2011 at 1:51 am
I’m a westerner and from what I have seen and experienced of christianity, i’m no fan of it either. I’m not too sure what you mean by Indians waging war, in fact Im not too sure I recognise the country you’re talking about.
December 6th, 2011 at 3:13 pm
to start with, there is western music culture and movies to be blamed for this. Every second hollywood movie (Unrated on DVD) displays easy sex. So an average indian guy who is not come across a white woman in his lifetime will always carry a image of what he is got from the movie . A lot of indian movies even today is a display of the indian culture (which doesnt show sex and nude women every time) here. Yeah but its so unfortunate that western women get to encounter indians who are so called perverts.
Guys come on ,some one truly said that “Men always have sex in their minds”
and this is true to a large extent .
So there are black sheep in every f***** society not only india .
Me and my friends here are on a holiday and we are planning to hit a private beach (not cause we get to encounter nude chicks cause we dont want anyone to be there except us ). so sadly there are either beaches flooded with mixed tourists of private beaches with half nude foreign tourists . Now where do we go cause if we choose the former we will hate it and if we choose the latter we might end up being called “Perverts”.
Anyways moral of the story is MEN from where ever they are , exhibit pervertic behaviour to an extent if they come across a half nude woman.
To all the goans who think , indian excluding them are perverts , fuck you ! we are not !!
@ CHRIS : pls dont talk about religion here cause , be it muslims or hindus or christians for that matter . We dont like some athiest talking shit here cause there are ppl who dont believe in any religion but are perverts .
anyways me heading to morjim…..see you soon !
December 6th, 2011 at 9:47 pm
lol.. I can’t believe this discussion is still on !!
December 7th, 2011 at 12:13 am
tariq, you are of course entitled to your own opinion and can voice it here, as can all the others. That doesn’t mean I will stop writing about religion, or any particular faith, it’s wayyyyyy too interesting and good for a few laughs. After all I have to bear every day on FB, G+ or other platforms, how people try to convey (or should I better say force?) their medieval views on others. Have a nice day and no offence! ;;)
Nainq, funny, isn’t it?
December 28th, 2011 at 4:28 pm
there are many indian men who are absolute perverts.i am an indian and i have seen behaviour of indian men in dubai beaches,goa beaches and so many places i have travelled.The reason is very simple.Indian boys when they grow up do not get to see women without clothes or skimpily dressed bcoz their moms will make sure that they do not get to see any such things. Also,indian boys grow up with the notion that their moms stick to their fathers and their sisters stick to their brothers and so if there is any women who is alone and enjoying life,they think that women is a person who can be played with.Suddenly when they become 20 plus and independent,they go nuts when they see porn or women in scanty dresses or liberal women or women who are single and enjoying life.They will then try to take her hidden pictures,try to touch her bcoz they think that she is alone and so she needs to have some male touching and they get inspired by bollywood where the heroes are constantly touching and playing with new actresses every time.
December 30th, 2011 at 7:07 pm
=D>,hi chris! i accidentaly found your post while searching for something else,and must confess ,was amazed to see that people have been posting here since last 4 years,awesome,now i don’t wanna mention about ur gf ,as it’s needless to say ,that it was wrong.
i just wanna say something which none of the people posting from india have mentioned here,so let me explain a few points here-
1}when an indian male is born,right from his upbringing in his family and the surroundings ,he is made to believe that a skin colour that is fair ,is beautiful and attractive and anything that id dark is ugly .so u can understand that any woman having a fairer skin tone than average indians (viz. dark) will attract attention from indian men.so ,u can ur understand why those men must be photograhing ur lady or any other western tourist.
(2)conservative society,some men may not even have seen a woman in skirt before ,other than tv ,if not married.
(3)limited sexual freedom -most men are virgin till they get married.
want to talk something more about tht skin tone thingy,even any indian girl with a fairer skin tone and fully dressed will be stared upon in india,even males who are fair,reason -as it is prommmed in our genes thru generation tht ,fair is better,even indian girls go for men who are fairer ,i can understand this quite well cuz i myself am a dark man ,and never had a gf in my life,proposed 2 girls,none of the agreed cuz they saw me as a friend and not bf,cuz i m DARK,bloody filthy culture here man,i never have been to west,but i m sure that no other country in the world can be as racist as india(and this comes from my heart ,being an indian)
December 31st, 2011 at 1:39 am
Wow! this is running a long time. I think Yomisha makes a good point. There is definatley a colour of skin thing going on in India and also amongst Brits of English origin too. Whiel I must admit that I can undertsand that in a rather repressive morality that the sight of bare pale flesh is a bit rare sight , the constant photographing can be a bit unnerving to tourists.
However , I think that actual reported to the police sexual assault is far lower in Goa than in most western countries so I think while being scary , perving in Goa normally doesn’t lead to sexual assualt.
In many Arabic countries this is not so. Unfortunately there is a few Arabic and Western men who see women as being very lowly if they sexually excit the man, and that doesn’t have to be by dressing like sluts either.
At the begining of this thread I’d nver been to India but now I have and I must admit to be very interested in dark Indian women. I suppose itis the opposite of what you are bought up with.
All this said, my partner always dressed respectfully when in India as that is what you do when in someone elses country.
Hello to all my Indian friends out there. Our cricket team will be victorious next year.
January 1st, 2012 at 2:56 pm
yep agree with adam,i just wanna say to all the tourists especially westerners coming to india that ,if u are coming to india ,don’t expect to party,u can visit historical monuments ,check out the diversity,thats it,and of course u need to be careful in trusting people,rather i would say ,don’t trust anyone.
January 10th, 2012 at 10:13 am
Guess what! It no big deal. I am indian and am bound to pop my eyes at a topless women. but to photograph… I cant say about that . India is like that. Dont count every one(i mean every indian) . I would certainly like to photograph with permission and no zooming in like pervs. And yes what yomisha says is really good piece of advice. If you come to india its better to see a historical monument then party.
February 8th, 2012 at 7:46 pm
A lot said and discussed here…I recently came after a visit to Goa (my 5th so far) and I completely agree with the ogling of foreign tourists by many Indian visitors there. But as it is said that a clap requires two hands ….its certainly a clash of cultures mixed with opportunism for the pervert mindset. A white woman in complete sari visiting a religious place would definitely invoke deep respect (of course, desires would also be there) whereas a bikini hints about the easy accessibility to her body here in India since skin show is directly proportional to her character (again clash of culture and society). As much a foreigner is amused to see a cow on main roads of Mumbai / Delhi , so is an average Indian seeing a women bikini in real !…hence doesn’t wants to miss the opportunity !
October 20th, 2012 at 3:26 am
L-) guys are u all nuts ..wht r u guys smoking ? huh ..m an indian .been to goa like 5 times ..u just cant blame indian males ..its nt that white skin girls are being raped in goa ..a clap requires two hands ….if u knw wht i mean ..even tthey want indian males ….at arombolam beach , i met a girl frm austria..she ws so despo to have sex with me …just after hvng a beer ..so wht about this guys????????
January 11th, 2014 at 7:45 am
You were not over-reacting. If some guy was taking pics of MY girlfriend, I would not only make him delete them, but smash the camera in his face.
January 11th, 2014 at 7:58 am
…but at the same time – you decided to sunbath in Goa? Are you out of your mind? It’s kinda like trying to buy liquor in Saudi Arabia. You were lucky those 3 guys didn’t come back with 30 more guys, got you killed, and gang raped your girlfriend. Before you travel to a country, you need to read up some history about that country.
February 13th, 2014 at 9:02 am
Piyush, I gotta say this Rape is Rape, I do hope I was wrong thinking that you were saying women are in somehow to blame for being raped!
Rahul, yes sunbathing is perfectly possible in Goa, why do you think the shak owners have sun beds and parasols on the beech.
August 22nd, 2016 at 4:26 pm
I spent two months traveling India last year and Goa was my least favourite stop. Particularly the beaches of Candolim, Baga and Calungute. It wasn’t just the leering paunchy men and groups of young jackass boys… even Indian *women* took photos and video of me – a middle aged aboriginal from Canada. I quickly learned how to tell them off in Hindi, Marathi & Konkani. They were all so annoying, I didn’t get the rest and relaxation I went there for… Until I found Palolem. The south had people who were of similar caliber to me – gentle, relaxed, sweet and kind. There is a completely different mindset in the south of Goa.
October 18th, 2016 at 5:50 am
I m an indian…!! And I stay in Kolkata and visit goa almost every year for partying and having fun !!! What happened to u guys are really shameful thing !!! And I believe what u did is not wrong at all!! But my frends it’s not only the issue in India but in other parts of world too..!! And it doesn’t mean u can blame all Indians because of some poverts..!!
In fact in Europe and America dey treat Indians very badly but we never blame all..!!
In every part of the world there are good people and bad people as well…!!
Sorry if I am wrong anywhere ..!! U might had found some indecent behavior but it’s because of narrow thinking not because dey r asians!!! And it can happen anywhere..!!
While as a Indian I apologize for the behavior of some bad people and hopefully you guys will understand that because of different cultures it happens sometime but still we believe in respecting our guests…!!!